American millennials are getting their ass kicked by Canada.

Turtleneck wrote:Yes. And I already use them in my career.

However, I like yard work quite a bit and have experience landscaping. Tell me how I can make money. How will I get past the big startup costs and compete i. an already overserved market? Point being, unless you start early in life, it is hard to turn you talent into a profitable career.

We're talking about millenials, though, right?

Edit: Find investors, kickstarter, gofundme, borrow, work a job and save every dime you have instead of going out on the weekends. Yes, it's hard and takes will power... but anything is going to be hard if you're raised thinking your lot in life is to find someone else to pay your living to do something easy from 9-5..

And obviously I'm not talking about you, personally.

Turtleneck wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Student debt. Jobs that pay anything require real experience. More student debt. It's not about safe spaces and shit. It's financially impossible for a lot of these people to go anywhere else.

I consider myself lucky to not have had to live with my parents after school. Shits tough out there starting out. Consider yourself lucky for being older. Or don't. That's fine too.

Ok....and where does that connect to the article? The one where students are claiming their activism makes it hard to also be a student, and therefore wish to have anything less than a C scrubbed from their transcripts and midterms replaced with conversations. I guess it is not really and article as much as a summary of people 25 and younger.

I was more addressing the other link you posted that I didn't read because really it doesn't actually interest me as much as you might think. The headline is enough to gather where your and xsangs opinion is coming from. Which, yeah, is mostly out of generalities and not actually considering if those millennials situation is exactly the same as yours was coming out of college, or even mine. Spoiler alert- it isn't. Shits tougher on them as a whole than it was on you.

As far as trades- Mike Rowe is a moron xsang. Tighten the fuck up. A) you're asking kids to make that choice effectively when they are 17. Doesn't really happen. They are funneled into college from the time they are 10 and thus burdened with that debt. B) that's a really bad long term solution. These people have to work for 40+ years. Not 5. Maybe immediate future- good choice. Long term? Completely idiotic.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

Ok....and where does that connect to the article? The one where students are claiming their activism makes it hard to also be a student, and therefore wish to have anything less than a C scrubbed from their transcripts and midterms replaced with conversations. I guess it is not really and article as much as a summary of people 25 and younger.

I was more addressing the other link you posted that I didn't read because really it doesn't actually interest me as much as you might think. The headline is enough to gather where your and xsangs opinion is coming from. Which, yeah, is mostly out of generalities and not actually considering if those millennials situation is exactly the same as yours was coming out of college, or even mine. Spoiler alert- it isn't. Shits tougher on them as a whole than it was on you.

As far as trades- Mike Rowe is a moron xsang. Tighten the fuck up. A) you're asking kids to make that choice effectively when they are 17. Doesn't really happen. They are funneled into college from the time they are 10 and thus burdened with that debt. B) that's a really bad long term solution. These people have to work for 40+ years. Not 5. Maybe immediate future- good choice. Long term? Completely idiotic.

Maybe don't get "funneled" into college? It takes a moron to invest that kind of money into something when you have no idea what you're doing.

Trade schools are between 15-20k and electricians are making good money these days. I wish I would have done that instead of wasted money on some corporate entry ticket. I don't even use the damned thing.

Shits tougher? Bullshit.

They can apply for jobs in their pajamas these days. 5 out of 10 of these fucks don't show up for interviews and you're lucky if one of the remaining 5 shows up in slacks and a button up t-shirt and can put a full sentence together.

I went to college to grow up, drink, fuck, and learn something. It is not all about the content.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:I went to college to grow up, drink, fuck, and learn something. It is not all about the content.

And how much did you pay to do that?

You could have learned to play guitar and did all of that without spending more than the cost of the equipment.

xsanguine wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:I went to college to grow up, drink, fuck, and learn something. It is not all about the content.

And how much did you pay to do that?

You could have learned to play guitar and did all of that without spending more than the cost of the equipment.

A lot. I didnt really care about the cost. The memories were well worth it, we are all going to just be dead at some point. Fuck money.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

And how much did you pay to do that?

You could have learned to play guitar and did all of that without spending more than the cost of the equipment.

A lot. I didnt really care about the cost. The memories were well worth it, we are all going to just be dead at some point. Fuck money.

I can't disagree with that, OTPT.

xsanguine wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I was more addressing the other link you posted that I didn't read because really it doesn't actually interest me as much as you might think. The headline is enough to gather where your and xsangs opinion is coming from. Which, yeah, is mostly out of generalities and not actually considering if those millennials situation is exactly the same as yours was coming out of college, or even mine. Spoiler alert- it isn't. Shits tougher on them as a whole than it was on you.

As far as trades- Mike Rowe is a moron xsang. Tighten the fuck up. A) you're asking kids to make that choice effectively when they are 17. Doesn't really happen. They are funneled into college from the time they are 10 and thus burdened with that debt. B) that's a really bad long term solution. These people have to work for 40+ years. Not 5. Maybe immediate future- good choice. Long term? Completely idiotic.

Maybe don't get "funneled" into college? It takes a moron to invest that kind of money into something when you have no idea what you're doing.

Trade schools are between 15-20k and electricians are making good money these days. I wish I would have done that instead of wasted money on some corporate entry ticket. I don't even use the damned thing.

You did literally nothing to show that that will benefit them more than 5 years down the line. Nothing. You're wrong xsang. Give this one up.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:I went to college to grow up, drink, fuck, and learn something. It is not all about the content.

Travis, maybe shit is tougher because drinking and fucking are prioritized over actually learning something.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

Maybe don't get "funneled" into college? It takes a moron to invest that kind of money into something when you have no idea what you're doing.

Trade schools are between 15-20k and electricians are making good money these days. I wish I would have done that instead of wasted money on some corporate entry ticket. I don't even use the damned thing.

You did literally nothing to show that that will benefit them more than 5 years down the line. Nothing. You're wrong xsang. Give this one up.

I just believe in thinking outside the box, Travis.

What choice am I asking them to make? Who is accepted and gets a loan to college at age 10?

One foot in front of the other. Life is a game, T. You gain experience in everything you do and it's important to think ahead and imagine what sort of experience you're going to want to gain to take you further.

The people who are successful use their imagination and set their mind to something... they don't sit around complaining about how unfair it all is.

xsanguine wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

You did literally nothing to show that that will benefit them more than 5 years down the line. Nothing. You're wrong xsang. Give this one up.

I just believe in thinking outside the box, Travis.

What choice am I asking them to make? Who is accepted and gets a loan to college at age 10?

One foot in front of the other. Life is a game, T. You gain experience in everything you do and it's important to think ahead and imagine what sort of experience you're going to want to gain to take you further.

The people who are successful use their imagination and set their mind to something... they don't sit around complaining about how unfair it all is.

Economics branches beyond micro xsang. Into this brand new world called macro. Like I said, I didn't need to live with my parents. It worked for me. If everyone tried to do the same thing I did, would it have worked for everyone? Nah. That's not how life works brah.

So, you're answer of "just go to trade school" is literally the worst idea ever. Seriously. Don't ever take mike rowes ideas and try to apply them again. Ever.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

I just believe in thinking outside the box, Travis.

What choice am I asking them to make? Who is accepted and gets a loan to college at age 10?

One foot in front of the other. Life is a game, T. You gain experience in everything you do and it's important to think ahead and imagine what sort of experience you're going to want to gain to take you further.

The people who are successful use their imagination and set their mind to something... they don't sit around complaining about how unfair it all is.

Economics branches beyond micro xsang. Into this brand new world called macro. Like I said, I didn't need to live with my parents. It worked for me. If everyone tried to do the same thing I did, would it have worked for everyone? Nah. That's not how life works brah.

So, you're answer of "just go to trade school" is literally the worst idea ever. Seriously. Don't ever take mike rowes ideas and try to apply them again. Ever.

The trade school idea is because for kids that don't have an imagination or aren't creative, it's a great option that doesn't cost a whole lot and pays pretty well and who knows... maybe you'll own your own electrical/plumbing/construction business some day. It isn't going to happen overnight and it might seem hard at times. That's just how life is.

We all have different paths in life. Of course everyone's journey is different. But nothing has really changed all that much over the years. You get up and find something to do and figure out how to turn it into currency. That's it. Some people think the only way to do that is to beg someone to find something for them to do and pay them for it for 40 hours a week. That's fine if that's your outlook on life and if you're happy doing that. I suggest those people just do the best that they can and network as much as possible.

But there are many, many, many ways to keep the lights on that don't require going into massive debt to do what most of your peers are doing.

Maybe you are good with computers. Maybe you know a lot about boats or cars or bikes. University is supposed to teach you how to learn. It's up to you to figure out what you want to learn... and the possibilities that you can turn into an exchange of goods are endless.

I think technology has a lot to do with entitlement and all the things you guys bitch about.

Things have changed way way way way way way more than you think they have. The Internet, globalization, the fact that you and I are even able to have this conversation, etc etc.

These differences are way underestimated by some folks like yourself. Like, way way underestimated. Like, whoa. It's probably the biggest technological advancement of all time and you say "things haven't really changed." Uh, yeah they have. Like a shit ton.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:I think technology has a lot to do with entitlement and all the things you guys bitch about.

This is true but technology also has created so many more opportunities for making money that didn't exist before.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Things have changed way way way way way way more than you think they have. The Internet, globalization, the fact that you and I are even able to have this conversation, etc etc.

These differences are way underestimated by some folks like yourself. Like, way way underestimated. Like, whoa. It's probably the biggest technological advancement of all time and you say "things haven't really changed." Uh, yeah they have. Like a shit ton.

Exactly. It has made it far easier to make money. Trade is waaaaaay easier than ever before.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:I think technology has a lot to do with entitlement and all the things you guys bitch about.

You're probably right.

Most of the time I am kidding. You're good people. There are like 6-8 other Millennials that are decent, too.

Turtleneck wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:I think technology has a lot to do with entitlement and all the things you guys bitch about.

You're probably right.

Most of the time I am kidding. You're good people. There are like 6-8 other Millennials that are decent, too.

Like, in the world?

xsanguine wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Things have changed way way way way way way more than you think they have. The Internet, globalization, the fact that you and I are even able to have this conversation, etc etc.

These differences are way underestimated by some folks like yourself. Like, way way underestimated. Like, whoa. It's probably the biggest technological advancement of all time and you say "things haven't really changed." Uh, yeah they have. Like a shit ton.

Exactly. It has made it far easier to make money. Trade is waaaaaay easier than ever before.

Lol, yeah. Correct. Not for a 22 year old kid with no real experience other than proving they are kinda smart though. It's gonna take time. And they DO get there. Eventually. But sometimes they have to go to their parents house for a few years first. That's the whole conversation, member?

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

Exactly. It has made it far easier to make money. Trade is waaaaaay easier than ever before.

Lol, yeah. Correct. Not for a 22 year old kid with no real experience other than proving they are kinda smart though. It's gonna take time. And they DO get there. Eventually. But sometimes they have to go to their parents house for a few years first. That's the whole conversation, member?

That's what I was doing at 22. Shit, that's what I was doing at 16. But, I also like to learn things, though... that's probably a huge part of it. If you aren't a curious individual then I do suggest trade school... unless you're going into the STEM fields. But if you are going into the STEM fields, you're probably a curious individual to begin with.

I've got no qualms with living with your parents if you're using that as an opportunity to save money that you'll use for furthering your goals. I think a lot of these kids that the article is mentioning are kids that are just going through life with that linear mindset, though. I guess that's why I jumped into the convo. I don't think it's a healthy mindset but it's the one dominating our culture/society nowadays.

I just wanted to say I <3 you Travis. I hope we are still best good e-frands.

We wouldn't be worrying about any of this if we didn't let women in the workplace in the first place. Thanks a lot, Turtleneck.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

You're probably right.

Most of the time I am kidding. You're good people. There are like 6-8 other Millennials that are decent, too.

Like, in the world?

Fine. 12-15. But that is it. 15 is the hard ceiling.

I will always love you xsang. Always. Never ever doubt that again or ill fucking kill you and fuck whatever hole I create in your stupid dead flesh.

Anyway, that's the thing I'm getting at. You can't say "well I did this" just like I can't say "well I did that." It worked for us, but it won't necessarily work for the population as a whole and it wouldn't if everyone went and did the same stuff we did. I really believe you're way underestimating how hard shit can be to break into. Does my company hire entry level people? Not really. Only the best of the best. I'm talking either Harvard level finance or 4.0 from a different school. Either that or people that (essentially) start out with a mop bucket and have to work their way up. If you take that route (which is, like, everybody) you probably can't live without your parents given your student loan debt to prove you're at least sort of competent. There is no other way to my job. None.

Maybe. I think it's fun learning a new industry and trying to see how far I can get in it. You can't do that in corporations because they suck and won't allow any process outside of their "system", but most companies are willing to try something if you can show them it'll save time/money/effort or whatever. Fucking christ almighty I hate corporations and corporate culture. I've never experienced such a soul sucking existence as I have in a corporate job.

xsanguine wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

Like prostitution and pick pocketing?

There's a million ways to make money in this world. Sure, many are illegal... but there's an infinite amount of ways to make money legally. It takes some imagination instead of the linear "someone needs to give me a task and pay me for it".

All true, but some people simply don't have the entrepreneurial gene or spirit.

Human resources is a department they created for people that lack skills and the ability to learn skills but don't mind being an overpaid pariah.

Shots fired... who'd I possibly offend? Let's do battle.

Travis wins. The economy is far more complicated than it ever has been before, and there is much less new market space to claim. It is funny that this conversation is taking place given that data posted in tBin today. Half of new businesses that opened during the recovery are located in 20 counties. Yes, you read that right. 20 counties - most of which are your largest urban counties - of the over 3,000 counties in the U.S. are home to 50% of new businesses. If you are in a rural area, or a smaller urban area, the external resources for a startup are not there. The economic data is not on your side, X.

Turtleneck wrote:Travis wins. The economy is far more complicated than it ever has been before, and there is much less new market space to claim. It is funny that this conversation is taking place given that data posted in tBin today. Half of new businesses that opened during the recovery are located in 20 counties. Yes, you read that right. 20 counties - most of which are your largest urban counties - of the over 3,000 counties in the U.S. are home to 50% of new businesses. If you are in a rural area, or a smaller urban area, the external resources for a startup are not there. The economic data is not on your side, X.

Sounds like those individuals that can't cut it in those areas need to be eyeing a move, then.

xsanguine wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:Travis wins. The economy is far more complicated than it ever has been before, and there is much less new market space to claim. It is funny that this conversation is taking place given that data posted in tBin today. Half of new businesses that opened during the recovery are located in 20 counties. Yes, you read that right. 20 counties - most of which are your largest urban counties - of the over 3,000 counties in the U.S. are home to 50% of new businesses. If you are in a rural area, or a smaller urban area, the external resources for a startup are not there. The economic data is not on your side, X.

Sounds like those individuals that can't cut it in those areas need to be eyeing a move, then.

And if they all do that then it won't work anymore because opportunity is still limited at some point and a lot of them will probably have to move back home and we'll be talking about how they all wanted safe places.

And if they don't then they'll have to live with their parents like they do right now. And we'll talk about how they all wanted safe places.

xsanguine wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:Travis wins. The economy is far more complicated than it ever has been before, and there is much less new market space to claim. It is funny that this conversation is taking place given that data posted in tBin today. Half of new businesses that opened during the recovery are located in 20 counties. Yes, you read that right. 20 counties - most of which are your largest urban counties - of the over 3,000 counties in the U.S. are home to 50% of new businesses. If you are in a rural area, or a smaller urban area, the external resources for a startup are not there. The economic data is not on your side, X.

Sounds like those individuals that can't cut it in those areas need to be eyeing a move, then.

I always find that response to be incredibly shortsighted.

I am not sure you fully grasp larger economic trends, or even life in America.

You're right guys. It's too hard... it's too complicated... it's not how the real world works...

If there's truly NO opportunity where you're at... why would you continue to wallow in self-defeat in such a place?

Turtleneck wrote:

I am not sure you fully grasp larger economic trends, or even life in America.

If this place called America is this difficult you guys should consider trying New York City, Grand Rapids, Lansing, Port Huron, or Detroit. I'm not sure where those places exist if they're not in America but I can tell you from first hand experience that a comfortable living can be made in those places without going into mountains of debt.

I'm going to bed but here's a thing. This is not uncommon for an "entry level" position. This is the kind of shit these dudes are facing to break into their careers. It's tougher than it was for you. Or for me.

"You better have 4-5 years of experience and also know literally everything about this job for this entry level position."

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

Sounds like those individuals that can't cut it in those areas need to be eyeing a move, then.

And if they all do that then it won't work anymore because opportunity is still limited at some point and a lot of them will probably have to move back home and we'll be talking about how they all wanted safe places.

And if they don't then they'll have to live with their parents like they do right now. And we'll talk about how they all wanted safe places.

Where there are people there is commerce and trade. Where there are no people there is no commerce/trade.

You're pretty obsessed with micro economics and not at all considering macro. You can't just have every single educated person move to one centralized location. It's better if they, oh I don't know, live with their parents for a few years to establish themselves because they can't afford it out of school, but stay separated. Both for their long term future and for society's.

I think you've lost sight of your original point here xsang.

I

xsanguine wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

I am not sure you fully grasp larger economic trends, or even life in America.

If this place called America is this difficult you guys should consider trying New York City, Grand Rapids, Lansing, Port Huron, or Detroit. I'm not sure where those places exist if they're not in America but I can tell you from first hand experience that a comfortable living can be made in those places without going into mountains of debt.

You should try Lake County, or maybe Cheboygan County.

I have lived in three of the five places you listed. Of the other two, I would live in one and I hate the other. Anyway, the per capita income in St. Clair County is under 25k for sure, and is probably lower in the city of PH. In the city the poverty rate is probably above 20%. I am not sure why Port Huron makes your list considering it has a population of less than 40,000.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I'm going to bed but here's a thing. This is not uncommon for an "entry level" position. This is the kind of shit these dudes are facing to break into their careers. It's tougher than it was for you. Or for me.

"You better have 4-5 years of experience and also know literally everything about this job for this entry level position."

Wow. Sounds like great people to work for. Fuck those guys. Too bad we can't out them for the assholes they are.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:You're pretty obsessed with micro economics and not at all considering macro. You can't just have every single educated person move to one centralized location. It's better if they, oh I don't know, live with their parents for a few years to establish themselves because they can't afford it out of school, but stay separated. Both for their long term future and for society's.

I think you've lost sight of your original point here xsang.

There are many centralized locations, though. Not everyone in the country has to move to one place. Not everyone in the state has to move to GR, Detroit or Lansing.

I'm not concerned with macro/micro economics. I've never paid attention to that type of stuff. I pay attention to what can I buy at a low enough cost and who is willing to buy it at a higher cost. Or, do I have a video that's getting a lot of views that I can get advertisers to pay me to use my space? Or, how many businesses need a website that don't realize websites are just made with templates nowadays?

I don't feel like getting caught up in whatever reason you're trying to tell me I can't make money for myself with.
But apparently the "not real world" has been pretty good to me so far. So I'll continue to operate in the world that doesn't exist and let everyone else complain about the "real world" if it's really as bad as you guys are saying it is.