serious question....

I'm going to go crazy with the multi-quoting here, because there's a lot of stuff that's been said in this thread that makes little sense.  Most of your rationale for why this is offensive fails the logic test, IMHO.  But let me preface this by saying that if someone finds something offensive, they find it offensive.  The person doing the offending doesn't need to understand the why, but they also don't need to stop doing it just because someone might be offended.  It's not a blanket offense.  Plenty of Indians could care less about this.

tTy wrote:Why and or how is this offensive?  I've given up trying to understand why people supposedly get offended over shit like this, so I'm just going to ask because I'm not going to waste brain power on this shit.   I seriously, 100%, don't get it..... Two people dress up like an indian and a pilgrim and a bunch of other people lose their shit over it.  How?

First of all, as to why this is offensive, it's pretty obvious.  Pilgrims were ultra religious and didn't drink.  The Pilgrim chick has a drink in her hand.  Very offensive representation of the Pilgrims (unless she's drinking water...I think Pilgrims were ok with drinking water).

pulling69 wrote:Red face is to Native Americans as black face is to African Americans....Also the "feathers" dude is sporting are supposed to be I assume the ceremonial war feathers of certain tribes, pretty sacred in their cultures. Again, I am a white bread so I wouldn't know about such things.

Ridiculous comment in the context of the picture posted in this thread.  Indians paint their own faces, African Americans do not.  The guy did not paint his face to look like the natural color of an Indian's skin, he painted it the way Indians themselves paint it.  If you think that's making fun of their culture, so be it, but to compare this to black face is fucking stupid.

tTy wrote:

pulling69 wrote:What is offensive to me is that the photographer missed a great shot at the skirt and legs of the pilgrim, and also more of the tight full bodied outfit the skank on the right is wearing. I draw the line at shitty non-offensive photography when the opportunity for so much more presents itself.

But we're totally cool with objectifying pieces of ass in our society......Even though probably none of us have ever actually crossed paths with a full blooded native 'merican in our lifetime.... kay.....(Queue the, I seen one of them injun guys last week at my family reunion, and I'm like 4.8% Chief Walking Bull Shit's great, great, great grandson, guy)

I have.  I've had Indian tribes/casinos as clients.  I've met Chiefs and other high ranking tribe members on several occasions.  Knew the marketing people quite well, all of which were full blooded Indians.  And that's what they called themselves, Indians.  Not Native Americans.  They called themselves Indians.  No problem with teams using Indians as mascots, dressing up, etc.  Again, that's the fucking chief and high ranking members of more than one tribe.  Sure, there are some that are offended by it, but I can say with certainty that it does not come close to representing the thoughts of all full blooded Indians.

DWags wrote:tTy, would you wear a KKK costume trick or treating on McNichols (six mile) and Gratiot?  

I'm confused, was the guy in the picture dressed up as Custer and going to a party on an Indian reservation?  How does dressing up in a KKK outfit and going to a predominantly black area have anything to do with dressing up as an Indian.  One is dressing up as someone that kills/wants to kill the race that they are offending, and the other is dressing up as the race of the offendee.  It's not even the same as painting your face as a black guy (again, I touched on the difference between this and black face in my response to pulling).  It's more like dressing up in the uniform of a black athlete.  Would it offend black people if a white guy dressed up in a Barry Sanders uniform?  I've never heard any complaints of that.

Cool. We get it. You're all about the rights of people to act like assholes. Me too. But I can also say that's assholish and that's my right. Dressing up like a racial/cultural whatever stereotype is assholish. Be original. Think of a different costume. Get a brain, moran.

Also, fucking puritans wouldn't wear their hair like that. Costume fail .

Rocinante wrote:Cool.  We get it.  You're all about the rights of people to act like assholes.  Me too.  But I can also say that's assholish and that's my right.  Dressing up like a racial/cultural whatever stereotype is assholish.  Be original.  Think of a different costume.  Get a brain, moran.

Yeah! I mean, look at this asshole and his costume stereotyping an ancient Greek culture.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Rocinante wrote:Cool.  We get it.  You're all about the rights of people to act like assholes.  Me too.  But I can also say that's assholish and that's my right.  Dressing up like a racial/cultural whatever stereotype is assholish.  Be original.  Think of a different costume.  Get a brain, moran.

Yeah! I mean, look at this asshole and his costume stereotyping an ancient Greek culture.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Rocinante wrote:Cool.  We get it.  You're all about the rights of people to act like assholes.  Me too.  But I can also say that's assholish and that's my right.  Dressing up like a racial/cultural whatever stereotype is assholish.  Be original.  Think of a different costume.  Get a brain, moran.

Yeah! I mean, look at this asshole and his costume stereotyping an ancient Greek culture.

Got eem!

MiamiSpartan wrote:
I'm confused, was the guy in the picture dressed up as Custer and going to a party on an Indian reservation?  How does dressing up in a KKK outfit and going to a predominantly black area have anything to do with dressing up as an Indian.  One is dressing up as someone that kills/wants to kill the race that they are offending, and the other is dressing up as the race of the offendee.  It's not even the same as painting your face as a black guy (again, I touched on the difference between this and black face in my response to pulling).  It's more like dressing up in the uniform of a black athlete.  Would it offend black people if a white guy dressed up in a Barry Sanders uniform?  I've never heard any complaints of that.

First, I don't care that he's dressed up like that.  It doesn't bother me.  I maintain, people who bitch about having to be "politically correct" are indeed the biggest pussies alive.   
I support those guys right to do it.  Put fucking war paint on because it fairly depicts indians.  That's cool.   Go as a drunk Irish guy.   a greasy WOP, a rich Jew, the fuck do I care.  How about a mentally challenged child?  I really don't care.   

Not my point in being in this thread.

DWags wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
I'm confused, was the guy in the picture dressed up as Custer and going to a party on an Indian reservation?  How does dressing up in a KKK outfit and going to a predominantly black area have anything to do with dressing up as an Indian.  One is dressing up as someone that kills/wants to kill the race that they are offending, and the other is dressing up as the race of the offendee.  It's not even the same as painting your face as a black guy (again, I touched on the difference between this and black face in my response to pulling).  It's more like dressing up in the uniform of a black athlete.  Would it offend black people if a white guy dressed up in a Barry Sanders uniform?  I've never heard any complaints of that.

First, I don't care that he's dressed up like that.  It doesn't bother me.  I maintain, people who bitch about having to be "politically correct" are indeed the biggest pussies alive.   
I support those guys right to do it.  Put fucking war paint on because it fairly depicts indians.  That's cool.   Go as a drunk Irish guy.   a greasy WOP, a rich Jew, the fuck do I care.  How about a mentally challenged child?  I really don't care.   

Not my point in being in this thread.

HEY!!!!

Rocinante wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Yeah! I mean, look at this asshole and his costume stereotyping an ancient Greek culture.

Care to elaborate? Why is that so different than dressing up like an Indian? Or, if you prefer, under what circumstances is it ok to dress up as someone from another culture without it being assholish?

I'm Irish...should I be upset over non-Irish people drinking and making an ass of themselves on St. Patrick's Day

^ This part of the conversation is rich as well.. "Well, then should I be offended by this?!?!"

You can be offended by whatever - that is up to you. Why do you let the media, politicians, or your crazy uncle on facebook sharing occupy democrat posts dictate it? Sheep like behavior.

DWags wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
I'm confused, was the guy in the picture dressed up as Custer and going to a party on an Indian reservation?  How does dressing up in a KKK outfit and going to a predominantly black area have anything to do with dressing up as an Indian.  One is dressing up as someone that kills/wants to kill the race that they are offending, and the other is dressing up as the race of the offendee.  It's not even the same as painting your face as a black guy (again, I touched on the difference between this and black face in my response to pulling).  It's more like dressing up in the uniform of a black athlete.  Would it offend black people if a white guy dressed up in a Barry Sanders uniform?  I've never heard any complaints of that.

First, I don't care that he's dressed up like that.  It doesn't bother me.  I maintain, people who bitch about having to be "politically correct" are indeed the biggest pussies alive.   
I support those guys right to do it.  Put fucking war paint on because it fairly depicts indians.  That's cool.   Go as a drunk Irish guy.   a greasy WOP, a rich Jew, the fuck do I care.  How about a mentally challenged child?  I really don't care.   

Not my point in being in this thread.

Right, I understand that you don't care what people dress up as. I just didn't get the analogy about dressing up as a KKK member and going to 6 mile road. Yeah, you said don't be a pussy and only wear something if you're in a place where that costume won't get your ass kicked. Do you think the guy in the picture would get his ass kicked wearing an Indian costume trick or treating on a reservation? I don't, at least not very likely. Hell, most reservations sell Indian costumes and stuff like that. I don't think you'll find many KKK costumes for sale on Gratiot and 6 mile.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:^ This part of the conversation is rich as well.. "Well, then should I be offended by this?!?!"

You can be offended by whatever - that is up to you. Why do you let the media, politicians, or your crazy uncle on facebook sharing occupy democrat posts dictate it? Sheep like behavior.

I'm not offended by anything

Snake Plissken wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:^ This part of the conversation is rich as well.. "Well, then should I be offended by this?!?!"

You can be offended by whatever - that is up to you. Why do you let the media, politicians, or your crazy uncle on facebook sharing occupy democrat posts dictate it? Sheep like behavior.

I'm not offended by anything

Nice. Sounds like we would enjoy a beer together like Nedgo and Bob.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Snake Plissken wrote:
I'm not offended by anything

Nice. Sounds like we would enjoy a beer together like Nedgo and Bob.

but mine would need to be bourbon

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Snake Plissken wrote:
I'm not offended by anything

Nice. Sounds like we would enjoy a beer together like Nedgo and Bob.

I have to amend my previous statement. While I don't get "upset" when people use the term retarded, I do try and educate them on why using another word would be better.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:^ This part of the conversation is rich as well.. "Well, then should I be offended by this?!?!"

You can be offended by whatever - that is up to you. Why do you let the media, politicians, or your crazy uncle on facebook sharing occupy democrat posts dictate it? Sheep like behavior.

I agree completely with this. As I've said, if someone is offended, they're offended, and we don't need to understand why.

However, just because something offends someone doesn't mean that it's wrong to do it. I saw some people this weekend and last night dressed as police officers. I'm sure that offends some people, in some cases very deeply. Is it wrong for them to dress like that?

MiamiSpartan wrote:

DWags wrote:


First, I don't care that he's dressed up like that.  It doesn't bother me.  I maintain, people who bitch about having to be "politically correct" are indeed the biggest pussies alive.   
I support those guys right to do it.  Put fucking war paint on because it fairly depicts indians.  That's cool.   Go as a drunk Irish guy.   a greasy WOP, a rich Jew, the fuck do I care.  How about a mentally challenged child?  I really don't care.   

Not my point in being in this thread.

Right, I understand that you don't care what people dress up as.  I just didn't get the analogy about dressing up as a KKK member and going to 6 mile road.  Yeah, you said don't be a pussy and only wear something if you're in a place where that costume won't get your ass kicked.  Do you think the guy in the picture would get his ass kicked wearing an Indian costume trick or treating on a reservation?  I don't, at least not very likely.  Hell, most reservations sell Indian costumes and stuff like that.  I don't think you'll find many KKK costumes for sale on Gratiot and 6 mile.  

Admittedly, I'm not an indian expert.  Again, I was just commenting on the fact that, if we're to believe the stories, it did offend some people.  That's what I'm going for.  I don't know if it'was the paint on the guys face or whatever.   I just can't wrap my mind around people who knowingly do or wear shit that offends people.  And I know I'm a broken record, I get that it's a first amendment thing, have at it, but I just don't understand their willingness to push that envelope.  Beyond that, I'm saying just how far do you push that envelope?  Do you have the balls to wear that to a party where the people who are offended by it are present?   If you say nobody is offended by it, I'll defer to you because I'm not really up on that, but if it does offend, would you do it?   If not, I just want the people who are upset about Political Correctness to shut the fuck up about it.

Snake Plissken wrote:I'm Irish...should I be upset over non-Irish people drinking and making an ass of themselves on St. Patrick's Day

Some Irish people are. AND THAT'S FINE.

I don't put on the stupid bowler with the shamrock and act like a fucking leprechaun. You know why? Because it's stupid and you look like an asshole.

As for sparty, that's a false equivalence. There are no Greeks still wearing armor and crested helmets as part of the practice of their religion.

Here's what pisses me off the most: you dolts want a simple answer. This is offensive, this isn't. But when people who get it tell it to you straight, you argue. If it offends people, and it doesn't hurt you not to do it, why do it?

Because you're a fucking asshole and because you have the right to be a fucking asshole, you think you should. Wags is right. You're all a bunch of whiney pussies.

I don't think I'm a whiney pussy roc.

SomeFanName wrote:I thought indians were from India and Cleveland?

It's all a fucking mess, like when CNN had the "African American Frenchmen" rioting in Paris.

Rocinante wrote:Also, fucking puritans wouldn't wear their hair like that. Costume fail .

I'd help her out of her costume.

DWags wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Right, I understand that you don't care what people dress up as.  I just didn't get the analogy about dressing up as a KKK member and going to 6 mile road.  Yeah, you said don't be a pussy and only wear something if you're in a place where that costume won't get your ass kicked.  Do you think the guy in the picture would get his ass kicked wearing an Indian costume trick or treating on a reservation?  I don't, at least not very likely.  Hell, most reservations sell Indian costumes and stuff like that.  I don't think you'll find many KKK costumes for sale on Gratiot and 6 mile.  

Admittedly, I'm not an indian expert.  Again, I was just commenting on the fact that, if we're to believe the stories, it did offend some people.  That's what I'm going for.  I don't know if it'was the paint on the guys face or whatever.   I just can't wrap my mind around people who knowingly do or wear shit that offends people.  And I know I'm a broken record, I get that it's a first amendment thing, have at it, but I just don't understand their willingness to push that envelope.  Beyond that, I'm saying just how far do you push that envelope?  Do you have the balls to wear that to a party where the people who are offended by it are present?   If you say nobody is offended by it, I'll defer to you because I'm not really up on that, but if it does offend, would you do it?   If not, I just want the people who are upset about Political Correctness to shut the fuck up about it.

I don't care about the political correctness. I'm just thinking logically. And comparing dressing as an Indian to dressing as a KKK member and going to 6 mile road is not a logical analogy to me. And saying that dressing up as an Indian for Halloween is "pushing the envelope" is not logical to me. I dressed as an Indian when I was 5 or 6, but I wouldn't consider myself running around forcing my First Amendment rights on everyone. I go to Disney, and I'm sure to see little girls dressed as an Indian princess, and many more little girls (and some adults) in line to have their picture taken with a very much non-American Indian woman dressed as an Indian princess. I'm sure some Indians are upset with all of that, but pushing the envelope?

Rocinante wrote:

Snake Plissken wrote:I'm Irish...should I be upset over non-Irish people drinking and making an ass of themselves on St. Patrick's Day

Some Irish people are. AND THAT'S FINE.

I don't put on the stupid bowler with the shamrock and act like a fucking leprechaun. You know why? Because it's stupid and you look like an asshole.

As for sparty, that's a false equivalence. There are no Greeks still wearing armor and crested helmets as part of the practice of their religion.

Here's what pisses me off the most: you dolts want a simple answer. This is offensive, this isn't. But when people who get it tell it to you straight, you argue. If it offends people, and it doesn't hurt you not to do it, why do it?

Because you're a fucking asshole and because you have the right to be a fucking asshole, you think you should. Wags is right. You're all a bunch of whiney pussies.

Ok, so now it's about religion? Because you didn't say that. You said anyone dressing up in a racial/cultural stereotype costume is being an asshole. So as long as you dress up as a racial/cultural stereotype that is NOT religious based, it's ok? Or just ok if it's about a 2000+ year old culture? What's the line? That's very general to begin with, and now that you're adding religion, it's even more general. So the woman dressed as the Pilgrim is just as offensive as the Indian, right? Little kids doing a Thanksgiving play, or Christmas Play, or dressing up in clothes from different countries as part of a school project. They're all assholes, right? Or at least their teachers/principals/parents are? People in movies, art, etc., that dress up as characters in other cultures are all assholes, too? So what's the difference between a non-Indian playing an Indian in a movie and a non-Indian dressing up as an Indian for Halloween?

Just because someone, somewhere might be offended by something, you shouldn't do it? You think you don't offend people with some of the opinions you've posted (not me in particular that I can think of, but others)? Would it hurt you to not to post those things? No, then why do it? Does that make you an asshole that you still do it? Of course not.

I'm not anti-political correctness by any means (in fact, there have been threads where I'm one of the people telling others that just because they don't mean offense, doesn't mean they aren't doing something offensive). I just think that your very general statements fail the test when put up against so many scenarios.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

DWags wrote:

Admittedly, I'm not an indian expert.  Again, I was just commenting on the fact that, if we're to believe the stories, it did offend some people.  That's what I'm going for.  I don't know if it'was the paint on the guys face or whatever.   I just can't wrap my mind around people who knowingly do or wear shit that offends people.  And I know I'm a broken record, I get that it's a first amendment thing, have at it, but I just don't understand their willingness to push that envelope.  Beyond that, I'm saying just how far do you push that envelope?  Do you have the balls to wear that to a party where the people who are offended by it are present?   If you say nobody is offended by it, I'll defer to you because I'm not really up on that, but if it does offend, would you do it?   If not, I just want the people who are upset about Political Correctness to shut the fuck up about it.

I don't care about the political correctness. I'm just thinking logically. And comparing dressing as an Indian to dressing as a KKK member and going to 6 mile road is not a logical analogy to me. And saying that dressing up as an Indian for Halloween is "pushing the envelope" is not logical to me. I dressed as an Indian when I was 5 or 6, but I wouldn't consider myself running around forcing my First Amendment rights on everyone. I go to Disney, and I'm sure to see little girls dressed as an Indian princess, and many more little girls (and some adults) in line to have their picture taken with a very much non-American Indian woman dressed as an Indian princess. I'm sure some Indians are upset with all of that, but pushing the envelope?

Not comparing the dress. I'm comparing whether it pisses anyone off. Also hypothesizing that there are people who bitch the most about having to be politically correct but would be a pussy like you wouldn't believe in the very situation where they could take a stand on political correctness. I'd bet 1K bucks on it. So I don't give a fuck about the Indian or the kkk guy. I laugh at hypocritical pussies that would clam the fuck up in situations.

WTF, if it bothers somebody why do it? Especially if you don't give the ones who it bothers the chance to kick your ass? It's like being a troll in life.

DWags wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
I don't care about the political correctness. I'm just thinking logically. And comparing dressing as an Indian to dressing as a KKK member and going to 6 mile road is not a logical analogy to me. And saying that dressing up as an Indian for Halloween is "pushing the envelope" is not logical to me. I dressed as an Indian when I was 5 or 6, but I wouldn't consider myself running around forcing my First Amendment rights on everyone. I go to Disney, and I'm sure to see little girls dressed as an Indian princess, and many more little girls (and some adults) in line to have their picture taken with a very much non-American Indian woman dressed as an Indian princess. I'm sure some Indians are upset with all of that, but pushing the envelope?

Not comparing the dress. I'm comparing whether it pisses anyone off. Also hypothesizing that there are people who bitch the most about having to be politically correct but would be a pussy like you wouldn't believe in the very situation where they could take a stand on political correctness. I'd bet 1K bucks on it. So I don't give a fuck about the Indian or the kkk guy. I laugh at hypocritical pussies that would clam the fuck up in situations.

WTF, if it bothers somebody why do it? Especially if you don't give the ones who it bothers the chance to kick your ass? It's like being a troll in life.

Are you done calling people pussies? Are you grabbing women by that?

Snake Plissken wrote:

DWags wrote:

Not comparing the dress. I'm comparing whether it pisses anyone off. Also hypothesizing that there are people who bitch the most about having to be politically correct but would be a pussy like you wouldn't believe in the very situation where they could take a stand on political correctness. I'd bet 1K bucks on it. So I don't give a fuck about the Indian or the kkk guy. I laugh at hypocritical pussies that would clam the fuck up in situations.

WTF, if it bothers somebody why do it? Especially if you don't give the ones who it bothers the chance to kick your ass? It's like being a troll in life.

Are you done calling people pussies? Are you grabbing women by that?

Who am I calling pussies Besides tTy?

DWags wrote:

Snake Plissken wrote:Are you done calling people pussies? Are you grabbing women by that?

Who am I calling pussies Besides tTy?

Mod War!!!

"If it offends someone, why do it?" I'm guessing the guy didn't think his costume was offensive. And there are certain people who are offended by pretty much everything and should be ignored at all times. But what percentage of people need to be offended by something for it to be generally accepted as "offensive?"

Being offended is a visceral reaction to something, and it's not always rational or even something one can put into words. I think most all of us would agree that if only a single person is offended and can't even rationalize why, then the thing in question is not offensive. Likewise, we can all agree that if a large majority of people are offended and can clearly articulate exactly why, then the thing is question is offensive. Disagreement comes about where to draw the asshole vs. acceptable line between those two extremes.

I don't feel that I've really moved the conversation forward, but this whole thread is a fucking disaster so I don't really care, I just wanted to hear myself talk for a minute (so to speak).

Cameron wrote:"If it offends someone, why do it?" I'm guessing the guy didn't think his costume was offensive. And there are certain people who are offended by pretty much everything and should be ignored at all times. But what percentage of people need to be offended by something for it to be generally accepted as "offensive?"

Being offended is a visceral reaction to something, and it's not always rational or even something one can put into words. I think most all of us would agree that if only a single person is offended and can't even rationalize why, then the thing in question is not offensive. Likewise, we can all agree that if a large majority of people are offended and can clearly articulate exactly why, then the thing is question is offensive. Disagreement comes about where to draw the asshole vs. acceptable line between those two extremes.

I don't feel that I've really moved the conversation forward, but this whole thread is a fucking disaster so I don't really care, I just wanted to hear myself talk for a minute (so to speak).

I love you, Cameron.

Cameron wrote:"If it offends someone, why do it?" I'm guessing the guy didn't think his costume was offensive. And there are certain people who are offended by pretty much everything and should be ignored at all times. But what percentage of people need to be offended by something for it to be generally accepted as "offensive?"

Being offended is a visceral reaction to something, and it's not always rational or even something one can put into words. I think most all of us would agree that if only a single person is offended and can't even rationalize why, then the thing in question is not offensive. Likewise, we can all agree that if a large majority of people are offended and can clearly articulate exactly why, then the thing is question is offensive. Disagreement comes about where to draw the asshole vs. acceptable line between those two extremes.

I don't feel that I've really moved the conversation forward, but this whole thread is a fucking disaster so I don't really care, I just wanted to hear myself talk for a minute (so to speak).

Good point.

Man. I have thoughts on this. I'll just keep them to meself.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Man. I have thoughts on this. I'll just keep them to meself.

No fuck that especially after saying this. And your friend ty started the thread. Pour another drink and let's go.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Man. I have thoughts on this. I'll just keep them to meself.

No fuck that especially after saying this. And your friend ty started the thread. Pour another drink and let's go.

This. I can barely be bothered to post most of the time and I still put out a couple paragraphs of musings. Let it rip.

This man was not a wimp.

[img][/img]

I'd take her for a ride on the Mayflower.

What is she holding in her hand, a turkey?

Cameron wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

No fuck that especially after saying this. And your friend ty started the thread. Pour another drink and let's go.

This. I can barely be bothered to post most of the time and I still put out a couple paragraphs of musings. Let it rip.

No one listens to anyone else so why bother?

I'm in between I guess. Ty loves to be an asshole on the internet. To Dwags point, he's not like that in real life. In fact, he's a sweetheart. He's met InTen, InTen has respectfully asked him to not use the r word. Ty has refrained. It's hard to marry his point in the OP to his real life persona because it doesn't work. I suspect like OTPT hypothesizes, he's letting social media get to him a little bit.

Truth is, I don't think white people (or anyone other than those targeted by certain words/actions/mascots/logos/etc) get to decide what is offensive to those targeted. Some are no brainers, but there are very few of those. I would not even call "The Redskins" as a no brainer. So I'ma sit that fight out. There are those natives/Indians who support the shit out of it. Seems like a lot of white people make a majority of the noise.

I can see the point of someone getting irritated at the white knighters (pun intended) trying to set the political correctness level for all. That's bullshit. Let those who are offended by it explain why it's offensive. And if they can prove that, and others refuse to oblige....to Roci's point - that makes them assholes.

I think that's a thing, too. Frankly if you march through life with the bravado that I don't give a fuck who gets offended by what I do and say, I'ma do it anyway because you're too sensitive. Well then....you're an asshole.

I choose not to be an asshole. I like to try to make a conscious effort to make other people's lives easier, not more difficult personally. That's actually a learned lesson, something I picked up from my wife. And I'm a better person for it IMO. I used to go through life (younger) trying to make the right decision but minimizing the impact my decisions had on others. I don't think that's the right way to do things to be honest. Just my .02. You can't go overboard with it, but there's a balance.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

Cameron wrote:

This. I can barely be bothered to post most of the time and I still put out a couple paragraphs of musings. Let it rip.

No one listens to anyone else so why bother?

I'm in between I guess. Ty loves to be an asshole on the internet. To Dwags point, he's not like that in real life. In fact, he's a sweetheart. He's met InTen, InTen has respectfully asked him to not use the r word. Ty has refrained. It's hard to marry his point in the OP to his real life persona because it doesn't work. I suspect like OTPT hypothesizes, he's letting social media get to him a little bit.

Truth is, I don't think white people (or anyone other than those targeted by certain words/actions/mascots/logos/etc) get to decide what is offensive to those targeted. Some are no brainers, but there are very few of those. I would not even call "The Redskins" as a no brainer. So I'ma sit that fight out. There are those natives/Indians who support the shit out of it. Seems like a lot of white people make a majority of the noise.

I can see the point of someone getting irritated at the white knighters (pun intended) trying to set the political correctness level for all. That's bullshit. Let those who are offended by it explain why it's offensive. And if they can prove that, and others refuse to oblige....to Roci's point - that makes them assholes.

I think that's a thing, too. Frankly if you march through life with the bravado that I don't give a fuck who gets offended by what I do and say, I'ma do it anyway because you're too sensitive. Well then....you're an asshole.

I choose not to be an asshole. I like to try to make a conscious effort to make other people's lives easier, not more difficult personally. That's actually a learned lesson, something I picked up from my wife. And I'm a better person for it IMO. I used to go through life (younger) trying to make the right decision but minimizing the impact my decisions had on others. I don't think that's the right way to do things to be honest. Just my .02. You can't go overboard with it, but there's a balance.

I agree with pretty much all of this, except that I do consider Redskins a no brainer. Not everyone is offended by the term, of course, but I believe the scales do tip in that direction pretty significantly.

It doesn't matter what you think is reasonable. There's only one test. If you wouldn't feel COMPLETELY comfortable walking into a room full of people of that culture/religion/gender identity/race/socio-economic position saying or doing the thing you are thinking about saying or doing, don't do it. Even then, some things you do or say will be offensive, and when they are, you say "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend" and you fucking stop.

If you don't live your life this way expect to be judged and told you're an asshole.

I think the real take away from this whole thing is that if you're gonna post photos on social media, make sure they are set to private if they could be construed in any kind of negative light.

Roc, this is sort of a rebuttal to your last post (but only kind of, because I mostly agree with you, it's just hard to come up with a one-size-fits-all rule about what is and is not offensive). Pretty much everyone does/says things that would offend some people in one way or another when they are with their friends in the privacy of their own home. Just because I wouldn't tell an "offensive" joke in a room full of people I don't know doesn't mean I'm an asshole for telling it to my friends. Sort of a "what they don't know won't hurt 'em" type deal. But the crucial part is that it's a joke (or a funny costume or whatever, it's about the intent). Being an outright racist/bigot in private still qualifies one as an asshole, of course.