The Russians and the 2016 Election PT II

LooseGoose wrote:LOL - "fake" news has been around for decades, good to see you're aware of the shit you've been fed.

Want an example? Delve into the GHWBush and the grocery store scanner story from the 1992 campaign. Completely made up story fed to the public as "truth".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akLjzTisZoI

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/05/us/bush-encounters-the-supermarket-amazed.html

Seems for the most part consistent. To be fair this line could takes it a bit far 'The look of wonder flickered across his face again as he saw the item and price registered on the cash register screen. '

Whatever, people made way too much out of that moment. I go through the self checkout aisle and am a total moron trying to scan the prices. President Bush Sr. did a better job than me.

Either way, there's human error in journalism. It's not perfect but that story doesn't reek of a huge egregious error or a major falsehood to me.

LooseGoose wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

I don't trust the source and I tell this to my progressive friends all the time as well. They rely mostly on independent journalism.

We live in an age of so much deception on the internet I apologize to you if that source is legit, but I've retreated to establishment news until we get a handle on this fake news problem.

Is Forbes establishment? Not hard to find verification.

Ted Kennedy's Soviet Gambit

Forbes is in the same band as CNN, Fox for me. I have issues with them but here I go I'm reading. Thank you sir!

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Is Forbes establishment? Not hard to find verification.

Ted Kennedy's Soviet Gambit

You are the grand master of straw man arguments. This is why no one can have a serious debate with you.

Links to real stories are straw men?

OK, sorry that I have this thing to show people that no matter what the press says there really is nothing new under the sun.

So I read up on it and did further research into it. Pretty interesting story.

The Forbes link you sent is a Reagan speech writer famous for the 'tear down the wall' speech. Great speech btw. He's convinced of it.

I went and read the WSJ and searched their archives on it nothing. I went and read the Ted Kennedy obituary on the WSJ and they didn't let him off easy in it, but there was no mention of this.

I went and read the politifact take on it, and I'm not a huge fan of that site either. They made a case against it.

The on part of the politifact article I found interesting:

In 1985, Reagan himself approved using Kennedy this way and a working relationship grew between Kampelman and Kennedy.

While it is possible that the administration never caught wind of any contacts Tunney had with the KGB, it is worth noting that when the archivists at the Reagan Library searched the White House files on Kennedy, no episode involving the USSR in 1983 popped up.

and

In the Reagan years, Kenneth Adelman served as deputy U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. and then director of the U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency. We asked Adelman what he made of the KGB memo, and he dismissed it.

He had no idea if an overture might have been made, but even it had, Adelman said it didn’t matter.

"We knew senators were doing this sort of thing all the time and we ignored it," Adelman said. "We didn’t think it was important, and it wasn’t. The administration didn’t care about it."

Stephen Cohen, a political scientist at Princeton University and New York University, suggested that KGB memos shouldn’t be taken at face value.

"As someone who has worked for years in once closed Soviet-era archives, I can tell you that many false documents can be found there," Cohen told PunditFact. "As the saying goes, rubbish in, rubbish out."

---

In short Goose, I find it interesting but the jury is still out for me.

More deflection by Goose.

Yesterday he tried to place the blame on the Russian hacks at the feet of the Clinton campaign as part of another conspiracy.

Its now challenge the messenger. Everybody has fake news.
That dog won't hunt.

Besides challenging the voracity of the CIA findings, President elect Trump is now claiming he's a smart guy and will have VP Pence present for the daily intelligence meetings because Trump doesn't have to hear the same thing day after day.

So we have a President elect who is saying the CIA didn't produce an accurate report about Russian hacking and the same day saying he doesn't need to be present at the daily intelligence briefing so he's pass that off to the VP.

NM

LooseGoose wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

You are the grand master of straw man arguments. This is why no one can have a serious debate with you.

Links to real stories are straw men?

OK, sorry that I have this thing to show people that no matter what the press says there really is nothing new under the sun.

Um... yeah. Do you know the definition of a strawman arguement?

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Links to real stories are straw men?

OK, sorry that I have this thing to show people that no matter what the press says there really is nothing new under the sun.

Um... yeah. Do you know the definition of a strawman arguement?

Yes I do, I've accused others of using them. For years. Perhaps decades.

LooseGoose wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Um... yeah. Do you know the definition of a strawman arguement?

Yes I do, I've accused others of using them. For years. Perhaps decades.

Then why would you ask that question? I'm not convinced you know the definition of a strawman arguement.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Yes I do, I've accused others of using them. For years. Perhaps decades.

Then why would you ask that question? I'm not convinced you know the definition of a strawman arguement.

shut up nigel

Blanch32 wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Then why would you ask that question? I'm not convinced you know the definition of a strawman arguement.

shut up nigel

Still mad that I took over tBob?

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Blanch32 wrote:

shut up nigel

Still mad that I took over tBob?

mad? shit, I'm embarrassed for you. how many times do you need to bump your own threads? so pathetic nigel

man, Goose is mad.

I'd like to remind him that Trump supporters are a bunch of simple-minded knuckle-draggers..

I'm sorry if he wants me to be PC.. or if that hurts his feelings.

Blanch32 wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Still mad that I took over tBob?

mad?  shit, I'm embarrassed for you.  how many times do you need to bump your own threads?  so pathetic nigel

Whatever you say, The_Real_Nigel.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:man, Goose is mad. I'd like to remind him that Trump supporters are a bunch of simple-minded knuckle-draggers.. I'm sorry if he wants me to be PC.. or if that hurts his feelings.

Yep, I'm shaking with anger.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

Blanch32 wrote:

mad?  shit, I'm embarrassed for you.  how many times do you need to bump your own threads?  so pathetic nigel

Whatever you say, The_Real_Nigel.

you are definitely nigel! that's his tilt response!

LooseGoose wrote:Question for anyone reading this thread:

If say Mikhail Gorbachev were to come to the US and campaign with/for a candidate how would you feel about that?

Would it be ok? Would it depend on which candidate he supported? Would it not matter because even though he's Russian he's no longer in power?

Bump....

I notice no one wanted to answer these questions.....any reason why?

LooseGoose wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Question for anyone reading this thread:

If say Mikhail Gorbachev were to come to the US and campaign with/for a candidate how would you feel about that?

Would it be ok? Would it depend on which candidate he supported? Would it not matter because even though he's Russian he's no longer in power?

Bump....

I notice no one wanted to answer these questions.....any reason why?

Seemed like a dumb hypothetical to me.

NigelUno wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Bump....

I notice no one wanted to answer these questions.....any reason why?

Seemed like a dumb hypothetical to me.

it's funny watching republicans defend Trump and his ties to Russia.

Remember when they were the party of patriotism and got all upset because Obama didn't wear a flag lapel pin that time?

LooseGoose wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Question for anyone reading this thread:

If say Mikhail Gorbachev were to come to the US and campaign with/for a candidate how would you feel about that?

Would it be ok? Would it depend on which candidate he supported? Would it not matter because even though he's Russian he's no longer in power?

Bump....

I notice no one wanted to answer these questions.....any reason why?

If you're including me, I'm done here. Couldn't take Bob and frankly won't take your stuff here. My best man is a poster here. He is a great person but like you and Bob is single minded and stubborn in his politics. I can't even read his stuff on Facebook. But hanging with him he's the coolest guy ever and goes out of his way to help people. So, it's best to just drop this shit in this board. Too frustrating. Go back and read this thread. My point about undermining us elections and democracy gets pulled into I'm a leftist. It's not heard by many in this thread so why.bother? You guys solve the worlds problems. I'm done

Edit: well my best man almost got in a fight with Blaha at Dagwood once. We had to step in. That wasn't cool

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Bump....

I notice no one wanted to answer these questions.....any reason why?

If you're including me, I'm done here. Couldn't take Bob and frankly won't take your stuff here. My best man is a poster here. He is a great person but like you and Bob is single minded and stubborn in his politics. I can't even read his stuff on Facebook. But hanging with him he's the coolest guy ever and goes out of his way to help people. So, it's best to just drop this shit in this board. Too frustrating. Go back and read this thread. My point about undermining us elections and democracy gets pulled into I'm a leftist. It's not heard by many in this thread so why.bother? You guys solve the worlds problems. I'm done

that makes you a great American.

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Bump....

I notice no one wanted to answer these questions.....any reason why?

If you're including me, I'm done here. Couldn't take Bob and frankly won't take your stuff here. My best man is a poster here. He is a great person but like you and Bob is single minded and stubborn in his politics. I can't even read his stuff on Facebook. But hanging with him he's the coolest guy ever and goes out of his way to help people.  So, it's best to just drop this shit in this board. Too frustrating. Go back and read this thread. My point about undermining us elections and democracy gets pulled into I'm a leftist.  It's not heard by many in this thread so why.bother?  You guys solve the worlds problems. I'm done

I hear you loud and clear Dwags.

Also, good news for us sane ones. McConnel is calling for a congressional investigation. Even Priebus in his Chuck Todd denial interview said we shouldn't allow DNC emails to be hacked and a source to ABC is maintaining that Priebus is wrong the RNC was hacked.

Obama should declassify the CIA findings, the insane right lead by Trump is falling into the fact free zone of denying any credible institution.

They are trying to shift the debate to who you gonna believe? Me (Trump) or our CIA? PFFFT these are the same folks that were wrong about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction.

The far lefts debate is we had it coming to us, Karma for what we did in Chile with Pinochet.

The sane folks in this debate are right in the middle.

steveschneider wrote:

DWags wrote:

If you're including me, I'm done here. Couldn't take Bob and frankly won't take your stuff here. My best man is a poster here. He is a great person but like you and Bob is single minded and stubborn in his politics. I can't even read his stuff on Facebook. But hanging with him he's the coolest guy ever and goes out of his way to help people.  So, it's best to just drop this shit in this board. Too frustrating. Go back and read this thread. My point about undermining us elections and democracy gets pulled into I'm a leftist.  It's not heard by many in this thread so why.bother?  You guys solve the worlds problems. I'm done

I hear you loud and clear Dwags.

Also, good news for us sane ones. McConnel is calling for a congressional investigation. Even Priebus in his Chuck Todd denial interview said we shouldn't allow DNC emails to be hacked and a source to ABC is maintaining that Priebus is wrong the RNC was hacked.

Obama should declassify the CIA findings, the insane right lead by Trump is falling into the fact free zone of denying any credible institution.

They are trying to shift the debate to who you gonna believe? Me (Trump) or our CIA? PFFFT these are the same folks that were wrong about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction.

The far lefts debate is we had it coming to us, Karma for what we did in Chile with Pinochet.

The sane folks in this debate are right in the middle.

it'll be fun watching the mainstream media cover for Trump on this one.  

I mean, he admits to sexually assaulting women and the knuckle-dragging deplorables don't care.. why should they care about something that they don't even understand? You say "Pinochet" and they pull up a chair thinkin' they've been invited to a card game.

BREAKING ####

Electors want briefing on Russian interference before Electoral College vote

-----

steveschneider wrote:BREAKING ####

Electors want briefing on Russian interference before Electoral College vote

-----

Goose isn't going to be happy... because he didn't vote for Trump nor does he support him.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

steveschneider wrote:BREAKING ####

Electors want briefing on Russian interference before Electoral College vote

-----

Goose isn't going to be happy... because he didn't vote for Trump nor does he support him.

That whole thing is a joke, no effect at all.

LooseGoose wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Goose isn't going to be happy... because he didn't vote for Trump nor does he support him.

That whole thing is a joke, no effect at all.

good.. maybe you'll stop trying to convince people otherwise.

NigelUno wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Bump....

I notice no one wanted to answer these questions.....any reason why?

Seemed like a dumb hypothetical to me.

I guess if you have no knowledge of history except what DailyKos kicked out today it wouldn't seem interesting.

Just keep in mind paybacks are hell and Hills got hers.

LooseGoose wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Seemed like a dumb hypothetical to me.

I guess if you have no knowledge of history except what DailyKos kicked out today it wouldn't seem interesting.

Just keep in mind paybacks are hell and Hills got hers.

yeah - I'll never forgive her or her email account.

One thing that is ironic about this is that the CIA has alerted us to possible foreign intervention in our presidential election. This would be the same CIA that has likely interfered in countless foreign elections over the decades. And that would be among their most harmless activities.

LooseGoose wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Seemed like a dumb hypothetical to me.

I guess if you have no knowledge of history except what DailyKos kicked out today it wouldn't seem interesting.

Just keep in mind paybacks are hell and Hills got hers.

I have no idea what DailyKos is.

Yes, you can take that statement literally.

And I still think it was a dumb hypothetical.

What if Castro campaigned in the US before he died? Would you care? Would it depend on which "asshole" he campaigned for?

so far we have Republicans making excuse for their guy.. someone who is an admitted sexual predator, received the endorsement of the KKK and support via the hacking of United States government documents from a murderous dictatorship..

oh - and 80% of evangelicals voted for him.      

and they try to shame people like me into not calling them knuckle-draggers or whatever else might hurt their little feelings.

Confirmed Putin directly involved in the US hacking. ***EDIT according to NBC news which is a dodgy news organization *****

Meanwhile the right wing is calling it all fake news.

That's USA 2016 for you.

steveschneider wrote:Confirmed Putin directly involved in the US hacking.

Meanwhile the right wing is calling it all fake news.

That's USA 2016 for you.

Since you provide no link I assume you're relying on the Cynthia McFadden NBC report?

If so - listen to it closely, she provides no evidence, just more accusations based on leaks.

LooseGoose wrote:

steveschneider wrote:Confirmed Putin directly involved in the US hacking.

Meanwhile the right wing is calling it all fake news.

That's USA 2016 for you.

Since you provide no link I assume you're relying on the Cynthia McFadden NBC report?

If so - listen to it closely, she provides no evidence, just more accusations based on leaks.

GOP forgot the main part, put country first.

steveschneider wrote:Confirmed Putin directly involved in the US hacking.

Meanwhile the right wing is calling it all fake news.

That's USA 2016 for you.

Yet you have no evidence or 'confirmation.'

Election deniers are going full retarded.

LooseGoose wrote:

steveschneider wrote:Confirmed Putin directly involved in the US hacking.

Meanwhile the right wing is calling it all fake news.

That's USA 2016 for you.

Since you provide no link I assume you're relying on the Cynthia McFadden NBC report?

If so - listen to it closely, she provides no evidence, just more accusations based on leaks.

Good catch, sir. I fell for the Facebook crap people are bouncing around. I don't trust NBC news.

steveschneider wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

Since you provide no link I assume you're relying on the Cynthia McFadden NBC report?

If so - listen to it closely, she provides no evidence, just more accusations based on leaks.

GOP forgot the main part, put country first.

No link still? What are you basing this conclusion on?

Looks like more info coming tomorrow.

Anonymous America ‏@KORANISBURNING 4h4 hours ago
#wikileaks #pizzagate #MAGA RT this link http://findingassange.com/?i=3

LooseGoose wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Question for anyone reading this thread:

If say Mikhail Gorbachev were to come to the US and campaign with/for a candidate how would you feel about that?

Would it be ok?   Would it depend on which candidate he supported?   Would it not matter because even though he's Russian he's no longer in power?

Bump....

I notice no one wanted to answer these questions.....any reason why?

How would I feel? Confused.
Would it be okay? No, it would likely be the end of that candidate's career.

What's your point?