The Russians and the 2016 Election PT II

I hate the fact that the CIA has been meddling in other governments and their elections for over 50 years. We destabilized the Middle-East and directly contributed to the rise of radical Islam. But I'll be damned if we allow the same shit to happen to us.

I don't care where you land in the political spectrum, protecting our independence and our Democratic process is more important than anything. The integrity of our Democratic Republic has been questionable since it was created, but this is a new low for an American election, and I absolutely blame the DNC for their incompetent security protocols.

With that said, I have no doubts that the Russians could have pulled the same stunt against the RNC if they wanted to. I'm not convinced that they don't have hacked e-mails and blackmail on Republicans. If I were the Russians planning this, I would have hacked both parties. Leak the info on the party you don't want to win, then use the blackmail you have on the other party after they're in office.

Putin sounds like a swell guy.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/12/29/statement-president-actions-response-russian-malicious-cyber-activity

Just a day after our un-fit PEOTUS said it's time we get over it. Pfft.

I'm sure Trump supporters are going to find a way to deny this latest round of evidence but whatever. As for me I wish I was in Washington right now so I could watch those russian spies pack their shit and get 86'd from this country. Every patriot should line the streets to boo, jeer and flip the bird to these commie bastards on their way out.

Just another loser's excuse......ooooh the Russkies did it.

Too bad Putin's buddy wasn't ejected.

Trumps response after Obama's

""it's time for our country to move on to bigger and better things.".

Says he will attend an intelligence meeting next week.

Pretty much speaks volume of how unfit he is to lead. He just admitted he has no idea of the intelligence or the information that Obama is going off of.

Unbelievable what a buffoon that has been elected.

LooseGoose wrote:Just another loser's excuse......ooooh the Russkies did it.

This isn't an excuse, but that's what Trump wants his followers to believe. He clearly doesn't understand the situation he hasn't been to any intelligence meetings.

steveschneider wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Just another loser's excuse......ooooh the Russkies did it.

This isn't an excuse, but that's what Trump wants his followers to believe. He clearly doesn't understand the situation he hasn't been to any intelligence meetings.

The President elect doesn't go to meetings he receives briefings. How much info Trump is receiving we don't know. According to the reports Trump gets 1 a week while Pence gets the other 6. If Pence is capable and they are all working together there is no reason to be concerned IMO. It is no different then how a large corporation would handle info (IE one person can not effectively handle all info and thus relys on others he/she trusts)

LooseGoose wrote:Just another loser's excuse......ooooh the Russkies did it.

Until I read this I thought you had a modicum of respect for elections and what could happen if an enemy power interferes.

I just realzed you don't care.  Your side won.  The same guy who weeks ago was explaining why we didn't need 9 or 8 or 7 members seated for SCOTUS if Clinton won now thinks concerns of Russian hacking should be considered whining by losers.

That's too bad.

President Elect Donald Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Trump has spoken

[quote="CheesySpartan"]

steveschneider wrote:

This isn't an excuse, but that's what Trump wants his followers to believe. He clearly doesn't understand the situation he hasn't been to any intelligence meetings.

This has been covered repeatedly since he's won, he chooses not to go.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-turning-away-intelligence-briefers-since-election-win/2016/11/23/5cc643c4-b1ae-11e6-be1c-8cec35b1ad25_story.html?utm_term=.db7cc59d691b

"But others have interpreted Trump’s limited engagement with his briefing team as an additional sign of indifference from a president-elect who has no meaningful experience on national security issues and was dismissive of U.S. intelligence agencies’ capabilities and findings during the campaign."

Pence isn't the one making the statements on the Russia hack scandal, why put your faith in Pence going to the meetings? Trump is uninformed, and his leadership position is it is 'time to move on'.

steveschneider wrote:President Elect Donald Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Trump has spoken

Another Trumpism. Makes total sense if you remember this is the same guy who heads up 100's of businesses but doesn't like to read email. Uses twitter to communicate, makes up facts like 2M voted illegally and thinks daily intelligence briefings are a waste of time.

We may have elected our first ADD President who is also dyslexic so he avoids reading anything.

GRR Spartan wrote:

steveschneider wrote:President Elect Donald Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho Trump has spoken

Another Trumpism. Makes total sense if you remember this is the same guy who heads up 100's of businesses but doesn't like to read email. Uses twitter to communicate, makes up facts like 2M voted illegally and thinks daily intelligence briefings are a waste of time.

We may have elected our first ADD President who is also dyslexic so he avoids reading anything.

He probably never fully recovered from that Stone Cold Stunner.

lol

Time to clean the cobwebs out of your bomb shelter and restock the essentials. There seems to be a growing movement in Russia this morning to expel all U.S. diplomats in response.

Edit: Da, not just a growing sentiment, they did it.

Russia announces 35 US diplomats persona non grata

In the immortal word of Emily Litella, nevermind.

Russia Will Not Expel 35 US Diplomats in Response to Obama Sanctions

Floyd Robertson wrote:In the immortal word of Emily Litella, nevermind.

Russia Will Not Expel 35 US Diplomats in Response to Obama Sanctions

In the end, getting 35 people expelled from the U.S. is well worth disrupting and fucking with America, and turning the right towards Russia as some kind of ally now. They really have made most of my friends on the right and even the right wingers on this board, defend and embrace them. That is no small trick. The left maintains a healthy distrust and arms length away from them, but think about the attitudes you read here and on other social media and on the fox network. The old cold war nemesis is now being put out there as "couldn't they possibly be a big ally and our friend" by not the left, but the right. That, my friends, is the biggest game changer mind set of all time. Impressive. 35 people expelled and that's the final outcome? Shit, I'd take that in a heart beat. We will now, in my opinion, hesitate and delay any actions in the future Russia has on Europe. Every moment of delay will be to their advantage. Crazy shit.

Wags, who is embracing Russia on the right?

What the fuck are you talking about?

The_Dude wrote:Wags, who is embracing Russia on the right?

What the fuck are you talking about?

Donald Trump and his supporters.

Republican Congress applauded Obama yesterday so at least the congress is starting to come to their senses. McCain had some criticism for Trump the other day, which is good because I'm starting to see a bit of resistance to Trumps loony ideas developing.

I'm seeing a lot of more op-ed type articles that are hinting at Trump's involvement with Russia is going to be a bigger story.

Pure speculation, but there's some basis for suspicion on every point -

* He knew about the cyber attacks and is working with Russia.

* He is overleveraged in debt to Russian lenders

* He sees money making opportunities in Russia and is open for business for personal gain.

* Trump is stupid, and Putin is playing him like a finely tuned fiddle.

Only disagree on the last point. Trump isn't stupid. You don't grow millions of inherited real estate business to a billion dollar plus multi-brand corporation by being stupid.

However Putin was trained as a spy, a manipulator for decades and those skill sets aren't positives for the US when our President elect thinks he's the master manipulator and the smartest guy in the room.

steveschneider wrote:

The_Dude wrote:Wags, who is embracing Russia on the right?

What the fuck are you talking about?

Donald Trump and his supporters.

Republican Congress applauded Obama yesterday so at least the congress is starting to come to their senses. McCain had some criticism for Trump the other day, which is good because I'm starting to see a bit of resistance to Trumps loony ideas developing.

I'm seeing a lot of more op-ed type articles that are hinting at Trump's involvement with Russia is going to be a bigger story.

Pure speculation, but there's some basis for suspicion on every point -

* He knew about the cyber attacks and is working with Russia.

* He is overleveraged in debt to Russian lenders

* He sees money making opportunities in Russia and is open for business for personal gain.

* Trump is stupid, and Putin is playing him like a finely tuned fiddle.

Sounds like a lot of butthurt liberal tears to me

GRR Spartan wrote:Only disagree on the last point. Trump isn't stupid. You don't grow millions of inherited real estate business to a billion dollar plus multi-brand corporation by being stupid.

However Putin was trained as a spy, a manipulator for decades and those skill sets aren't positives for the US when our President elect thinks he's the master manipulator and the smartest guy in the room.

Putin is an asshole.

What's the next step? To continue the path of deteriorating relations with Russia?

Why does the left love Iran and now despise Russia?

Both those countries filled the power vacuum left in the ME by Obama.

GRR Spartan wrote:Only disagree on the last point. Trump isn't stupid. You don't grow millions of inherited real estate business to a billion dollar plus multi-brand corporation by being stupid.

However Putin was trained as a spy, a manipulator for decades and those skill sets aren't positives for the US when our President elect thinks he's the master manipulator and the smartest guy in the room.

Yeah, I took the opportunity to get a personal dig in at Trump. How about replace 'stupid' with naive on foreign policy?

steveschneider wrote:

GRR Spartan wrote:Only disagree on the last point. Trump isn't stupid. You don't grow millions of inherited real estate business to a billion dollar plus multi-brand corporation by being stupid.

However Putin was trained as a spy, a manipulator for decades and those skill sets aren't positives for the US when our President elect thinks he's the master manipulator and the smartest guy in the room.

Yeah, I took the opportunity to get a personal dig in at Trump. How about replace 'stupid' with naive on foreign policy?

Profound arrogance combined with naivety is very dangerous combination for our country for the next 4 years.

The_Dude wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Donald Trump and his supporters.

Republican Congress applauded Obama yesterday so at least the congress is starting to come to their senses. McCain had some criticism for Trump the other day, which is good because I'm starting to see a bit of resistance to Trumps loony ideas developing.

I'm seeing a lot of more op-ed type articles that are hinting at Trump's involvement with Russia is going to be a bigger story.

Pure speculation, but there's some basis for suspicion on every point -

* He knew about the cyber attacks and is working with Russia.

* He is overleveraged in debt to Russian lenders

* He sees money making opportunities in Russia and is open for business for personal gain.

* Trump is stupid, and Putin is playing him like a finely tuned fiddle.

Sounds like a lot of butthurt liberal tears to me

Trump's statement was surreal, and he made it while standing next to Don King. This is a concerned citizen speaking, not a 'butthurt liberal'.

Noted Right Wing Rag Rolling Stone warns about believing Russians hacked the election bullshit.

Something About This Russia Story Stinks - - Nearly a decade and a half after the Iraq-WMD faceplant, the American press is again asked to co-sign a dubious intelligence assessment

As noted in The Intercept and other outlets, an Economist/YouGov poll conducted this month shows that 50 percent of all Clinton voters believe the Russians hacked vote tallies.

This number is nearly as disturbing as the 62 percent of Trump voters who believe the preposterous, un-sourced Trump/Alex Jones contention that "millions" of undocumented immigrants voted in the election.

There have been other excesses. An interview with Julian Assange by an Italian newspaper has been bastardized in Western re-writes, with papers like The Guardian crediting Assange with "praise" of Trump and seemingly flattering comments about Russia that are not supported by the actual text. (The Guardian has now "amended" a number of the passages in the report in question).

But this could also just be a cynical ass-covering campaign, by a Democratic Party that has seemed keen to deflect attention from its own electoral failures.

The outgoing Democrats could just be using an over-interpreted intelligence "assessment" to delegitimize the incoming Trump administration and force Trump into an embarrassing political situation: Does he ease up on Russia and look like a patsy, or escalate even further with a nuclear-armed power?

GRR Spartan wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Yeah, I took the opportunity to get a personal dig in at Trump. How about replace 'stupid' with naive on foreign policy?

Profound arrogance combined with naivety is very dangerous combination for our country for the next 4 years.

It's a good thing people that combine those aren't in charge, eh? Or are we to believe the denizens of the Swill Bin are much more informed than the incoming administration?

LooseGoose wrote:Noted Right Wing Rag Rolling Stone warns about believing Russians hacked the election bullshit.

Something About This Russia Story Stinks - - Nearly a decade and a half after the Iraq-WMD faceplant, the American press is again asked to co-sign a dubious intelligence assessment

As noted in The Intercept and other outlets, an Economist/YouGov poll conducted this month shows that 50 percent of all Clinton voters believe the Russians hacked vote tallies.

This number is nearly as disturbing as the 62 percent of Trump voters who believe the preposterous, un-sourced Trump/Alex Jones contention that "millions" of undocumented immigrants voted in the election.

There have been other excesses. An interview with Julian Assange by an Italian newspaper has been bastardized in Western re-writes, with papers like The Guardian crediting Assange with "praise" of Trump and seemingly flattering comments about Russia that are not supported by the actual text. (The Guardian has now "amended" a number of the passages in the report in question).

But this could also just be a cynical ass-covering campaign, by a Democratic Party that has seemed keen to deflect attention from its own electoral failures.

The outgoing Democrats could just be using an over-interpreted intelligence "assessment" to delegitimize the incoming Trump administration and force Trump into an embarrassing political situation: Does he ease up on Russia and look like a patsy, or escalate even further with a nuclear-armed power?

Basically echoed the Intercept's Greenwald position, who was on Fox the other day discussing the issue with Tucker Carlson. The two came off as great friends, and I'm not that wild about the far left these days. They promote right wing talking points.

Taibbi's piece and Greenwalds are just op-ed's and they are free to be as wrong as they want. They put their faith in the failures of the press in the past, but the Iraq story has no relevance to the russian hacking. None at all.

Judith Miller may have been duped, but this story was broken by the Washington Post, it was furthered by the NYT and then expanded even further by NPR. I find it to be an apples to oranges comparison.

LooseGoose wrote:

GRR Spartan wrote:

Profound arrogance combined with naivety is very dangerous combination for our country for the next 4 years.

It's a good thing people that combine those aren't in charge, eh?   Or are we to believe the denizens of the Swill Bin are much more informed than the incoming administration?

What? What bearing does the Swill Bin's collective intelligence have on the Trump administration's arrogance and naivete (or lack thereof)?

And are you arguing that Trump is neither arrogant nor naive? Or just that he's not BOTH of those things?

The Trump/Putin Bromance continues -

"Great move on delay (by V. Putin) - I always knew he was very smart!"

Cameron wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:

It's a good thing people that combine those aren't in charge, eh?   Or are we to believe the denizens of the Swill Bin are much more informed than the incoming administration?

What? What bearing does the Swill Bin's collective intelligence have on the Trump administration's arrogance and naivete (or lack thereof)?

And are you arguing that Trump is neither arrogant nor naive? Or just that he's not BOTH of those things?

Trump is arrogant - that's a given. I believe he's as naive as the average American about how to handle foreign affairs. I'm encouraged by the fact that he's appointing people that aren't naive and will be relying on their advice. You hire smart people and listen to them. Until I see him actually doing stupid things while IN Office I'm not going to worry about it.

Goose you know danmned well I think Trump is arrogant (I know companies he refused to pay, told them to sue and drove some out of business)

I also think Trump is a minnow who thinks he's working with a fellow shark when it comes to Putin.  

We're not talking about President GHW Bush who ran the CIA and had a career workng with US intellgence helping them use companies he owned as cover (see Zapata Oil) .  We're talkng about a Fordham grad who inherited his first millions thinking he can work with a former 16 year KGB spy who got his billions by elimnating rivals and makng offers that couldn't be refused  to others.

You want to buy into the new "conservative" group think Trump is some expert puppet master?  Its your choice.  Putin didn't respond in kind today because he knows Trump is going to flop like a tuna.

My limited knowledge of Putin comes from a friend who is USN retired Captain ( that's one grade below admiral) who spent his entire career as a Naval Intelligence Officer first onboard ships, then in places he won't specify and the last decade in the Pentagon.  Now he's a think tank foreign specialst.

He told me several times Putin is one of the most capable and dangerous leaders of the former USSR and now Russia theat the US has had to deal with since Stalin.  That's based on Putin's training and 16 years experience as a KGB officer.  His willingness to get things done by any means necessary including killing journalists and poltical enemies.    All that has been said on several occassion over a year before we knew Trump would be a candidate.

I hope I'm wrong but i don't have blind  faith in a President elect who thinks intelligence briefings are a waste of time, refuses to relase personal financial data, refuses to put his holdings in a blind trust and includes 3 of his adult children in meetings with US business leaders.

LooseGoose wrote:

Cameron wrote:
What? What bearing does the Swill Bin's collective intelligence have on the Trump administration's arrogance and naivete (or lack thereof)?

And are you arguing that Trump is neither arrogant nor naive? Or just that he's not BOTH of those things?

Trump is arrogant - that's a given. I believe he's as naive as the average American about how to handle foreign affairs. I'm encouraged by the fact that he's appointing people that aren't naive and will be relying on their advice. You hire smart people and listen to them. Until I see him actually doing stupid things while IN Office I'm not going to worry about it.

He's doing stupid things right now and he's not even sworn in. His tweets and press quotes the last 24 hours have been a complete embarrassment. He's siding with foreign powers against the current sitting president.

Calling Putin smart after our government put sanctions on Russia and the republican congress applauded the president for the action. There is no defense for Trump's behavior. None.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38521503

I guess you could believe the director of national intelligence or a guy that has to stay holed up at an Ecuadorian embassy in London because of rape accusations. Your call.

it's fun watching republicans side with Russia over America..

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38521503

I guess you could believe the director of national intelligence or a guy that has to stay holed up at an Ecuadorian embassy in London because of rape accusations. Your call.

well, as I pointed out yesterday - they voted for someone who admitted to raping women.

So it's not really a stretch to believe that they'd choose another rapist given their contempt for America.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38521503

I guess you could believe the director of national intelligence or a guy that has to stay holed up at an Ecuadorian embassy in London because of rape accusations. Your call.

well, as I pointed out yesterday - they voted for someone who admitted to raping women.

So it's not really a stretch to believe that they'd choose another rapist given their contempt for America.

#TrollSoHard

AnomanderRake wrote:I hate the fact that the CIA has been meddling in other governments and their elections for over 50 years. We destabilized the Middle-East and directly contributed to the rise of radical Islam. But I'll be damned if we allow the same shit to happen to us.

I don't care where you land in the political spectrum, protecting our independence and our Democratic process is more important than anything. The integrity of our Democratic Republic has been questionable since it was created, but this is a new low for an American election, and I absolutely blame the DNC for their incompetent security protocols.

With that said, I have no doubts that the Russians could have pulled the same stunt against the RNC if they wanted to. I'm not convinced that they don't have hacked e-mails and blackmail on Republicans. If I were the Russians planning this, I would have hacked both parties. Leak the info on the party you don't want to win, then use the blackmail you have on the other party after they're in office.

I agree. Protecting our Democratic process is of utmost importance.

Its just funny that NOW the Dems lost, and its all of a sudden a major issue. Russia, China, etc have been doing this shit FOR YEARS and Obama didnt do jack about it. In fact, he laughed at the notion Russia was a geo-political foe..

CheesySpartan wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
well, as I pointed out yesterday - they voted for someone who admitted to raping women.

So it's not really a stretch to believe that they'd choose another rapist given their contempt for America.

#TrollSoHard

I'm sorry that you need a safe space from my opinions.

I find it troubling that our President elect trusts Assange and Putin more than US intelligence.  

But I also find it troubling that he is planning on re-organizing the CIA and the GOP Congress is re-instituting the 1876 Holman Rule that will allow Congress to cut funding for any program or individual to $1/year.

Maybe Trump think's is bestie Putin will give him more accurate intelligence than the CIA.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/donald-trump-plans-to-revamp-cut-back-us-intelligence-agencies-2017-01-04

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/house-republicans-revive-obscure-rule-that-could-allow-them-to-slash-the-pay-of-individual-federal-workers-to-1/2017/01/04/4e80c990-d2b2-11e6-945a-76f69a399dd5_story.html?utm_term=.ccc42e561638

GRR Spartan wrote:I find it troubling that our President elect trusts Assange and Putin more than US intelligence.  

But I also find it troubling that he is planning on re-organizing the CIA and the GOP Congress is re-instituting the 1876 Holman Rule that will allow Congress to cut funding for any program or individual to $1/year.

Maybe Trump think's is bestie Putin will give him more accurate intelligence than the CIA.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/donald-trump-plans-to-revamp-cut-back-us-intelligence-agencies-2017-01-04

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/house-republicans-revive-obscure-rule-that-could-allow-them-to-slash-the-pay-of-individual-federal-workers-to-1/2017/01/04/4e80c990-d2b2-11e6-945a-76f69a399dd5_story.html?utm_term=.ccc42e561638

I always get a chuckle when "republican" and "intelligence" is used in the same sentence.

on another note, he's going to restructure the CIA so it will allow him to never be held accountable for anything.

the first terror attack in the US under the admitted sexual predator will be interesting.. lives of families will be destroyed as he will lay blame at everyone but himself.