Re: Repealing Affordable Care Act

by **xsanguine** Thu May 11, 2017 9:49 pm

GRR Spartan wrote:
xsanguine wrote:

Health insurance is extremely smart to have. I will think you're not all there in the head not to have it. I just have a problem with a group of people forcing you into a business relationship with another individual or individuals.

I also think all these people riding motorcycles without helmets are idiots... but I don't think they should be pulled over and forced to wear one either by fine or threat of arrest.

And you and I pay for every freedom loving person who opts to ride without a helmet every time one is involved in an accident. We pay for the high cost of their care, their possible recovery and any legal filings that clog up the courts.

You want to argue political nuance about the "forced minimum"? So long as everyone is guaranteed treatment (that's already an authoritarian idea that is practiced) what is the issue with of having individuals over 26 (under current ACA rules) who are no longer covered by a parent's plan or those whose parents also have no coverage be required to purchase minimum high deductible health insurance?

If you are one who pays the pittance of a penalty and plans on stiffing the doctors and hospitals, step back and look at what you are costing the sysyem.

The Finance VP from Spectrum Health and the doctors who work at their hospitals are much better off to have you on the hook for the $10K with your high deductible plan and having Blue Cross or Priority Health or Aetna cover the remaining $100K plus for getting your neck or knee repaired and the therapy after surgery.

X, as a businessman is it wise to be on the hook for worst case $12,500 or risk personal and business bankruptcy? Because people who aren't lucky and get hospitalized cost all of us.

There's so many reasons... but I just don't have the energy to fight about anything today. Maybe later.

by **GRR Spartan** Fri May 12, 2017 7:27 am

You want to defend being able to stiff the people who save a deadbeat's life?

Is it your contention that we, as a society should check on your ability to pay prior to administering medical treatment and should we find thats not the case let you die at the scene of of your accident, fall etc?

Libertarian doesn't mean thief or deadbeat.

Can't have it both ways. If we want a country where an emergency room or a walking clinic doesn't deny you treatment for a life threatening condition then we need a mechanism that requires participation in a insurance plan just like requiring auto insurance.

Currently the non-participation fee is as inadequate as the motorcycle non-helmet waiver fee.

by **InTenSity** Fri May 12, 2017 12:46 pm

GRR Spartan wrote:You want to defend being able to stiff the people who save a deadbeat's life?

Is it your contention that we, as a society should check on your ability to pay prior to administering medical treatment and should we find thats not the case let you die at the scene of of your accident, fall etc?

Libertarian doesn't mean thief or deadbeat.

Can't have it both ways. If we want a country where an emergency room or a walking clinic doesn't deny you treatment for a life threatening condition then we need a mechanism that requires participation in a insurance plan just like requiring auto insurance.

Currently the non-participation fee is as inadequate as the motorcycle non-helmet waiver fee.

This is how it works in 3rd world countries. My wife is from the Philippines. If you can't show proof of funds at the hospital they will deny you entrance. I don't think it is all the hospitals, but it is a majority of them. I'm glad that people here want to go back to 3rd world country status.

by **xsanguine** Fri May 12, 2017 2:00 pm

GRR Spartan wrote:You want to defend being able to stiff the people who save a deadbeat's life?

Is it your contention that we, as a society should check on your ability to pay prior to administering medical treatment and should we find thats not the case let you die at the scene of of your accident, fall etc?

Libertarian doesn't mean thief or deadbeat.

Can't have it both ways. If we want a country where an emergency room or a walking clinic doesn't deny you treatment for a life threatening condition then we need a mechanism that requires participation in a insurance plan just like requiring auto insurance.

Currently the non-participation fee is as inadequate as the motorcycle non-helmet waiver fee.

Obviously it's inadequate. $600 fee and they can rack up $10k, $50k, $100k in bills that everyone is still on the hook for? Obama and Trump are fantastic for the health care industry. It's a boomtown.

If what you are suggesting is going single payer, then I'm with you. Because that's the only way it's going to be fixed in the ways most people want this handled. Just be prepared to destroy an entire industry to do so.

I have philosophical reasons for being against single payer but I'd rather people be forced to rethink the prestige the role of doctor comes with than continue feeding that hungry beast through forced participation in a private industry.

by **xsanguine** Fri May 12, 2017 2:19 pm

But to answer your first question, GRR, I'd be fine with someone end up in financial ruin (allow those items be available per credit report) if they decide to not have health insurance and ride a motorcycle around without a helmet on and get in an accident.... as opposed to forcing individuals to participate in a business relationship within an artificially bullish industry or the individual who does participate but has seen their premiums and deductibles go up because of the flood of individuals. The individual that chooses not to buy health insurance and crashes into a tree without a helmet would be at the whim of charity. That's not my fault. Don't pin their shortcomings, whatever they may be, on me. We see how this has affected insurance premiums (at least I have with mine and I've always carried health insurance).

So yeah, the best bet is to go single payer... I guess.

What other industries can we make compulsory and further entrench government intrusion into our lives?

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