Fuck it- statues

Frank Ricard wrote:

steveschneider wrote:I think this statue thing has gotten completely out of hand. Enough with this mob rule going around and determining which statue stays and goes. I think there needs to be a discussion and a process around it.

You mean we should put as much thinking as we did when these statues were put up? These were put up to intimidate Blacks. That's all the thought process that was put into it - so these people in the South could hang onto their racist past.

You think the Germans should have statues honoring Hitler and Himmler? You think there should be committees and focus groups to leave up our racist past? Maybe the South didn't have gas chambers, but it's a fact they didn't see their slaves as human beings and bought and sold them like commodities, often splitting up families. The Nazis didn't see Jewish people as humans either. And I don't see statues in Germany romanticizing their defeat in a war. You'd think we'd do better. Fuck statues.

So what's the criteria? I'm all for taking down Confederate statues, and changing street names, military bases, etc. named after Confederates, for all of the reasons you listed. But it has gone well beyond Confederate figures, and that's where there needs to be a real conversation.

Random thoughts

I’ve stated I’m just not emotionally invested in bringing them down.
Steve’s right, mob rules gets us no where. It’s getting ridiculous. I understand feelings about bringing them down. I’m not really concerned what any white person thinks about them. I’m only interested in what people of color feel about them. I can completely respect the reasons why they would want them down. I’m just not there. But I understand.

I don't necessarily agree with every statue that's coming into the crosshairs, but I don't give one single fuck about any statue that isn't on Liberty Island. They could tear down every single one and it wouldn't affect my life one bit. If not for the internet, I wouldn't even notice.

Cameron wrote:I don't necessarily agree with every statue that's coming into the crosshairs, but I don't give one single fuck about any statue that isn't on Liberty Island. They could tear down every single one and it wouldn't affect my life one bit. If not for the internet, I wouldn't even notice.

This. I don’t think anyone begging for a “conversation” about a statue in Madison WI would be invited to a conversation about a statue in Madison WI in the first place. It sounds like the fine people of Madison WI had their own conversation and decided they didn’t want the statue. We just weren’t invited to it. Which is fine and up to them.

Eff you, we're keeping our racist statue

ALLENDALE TWP., MI (WILX) - There is finally a decision in a statue controversy that has been brewing for weeks in West Michigan.

Allendale Township officials have decided not to remove a statue depicting a Union soldier, a Confederate soldier, and a child slave.

The township supervisor, Adam Elenbaas, said yesterday he understands why the statue might be hurtful to the black community.

However, he added that the township board does not believe that is reason enough to take the statue down.

Elenbaas said, "What it represents to them (the African American community) might be different from what it represents to the people who put it up 20-years-ago, but it sparked a lot of really good conversation and I understand where they're coming from."

Last week, demonstrators covered the controversial statue with a plastic bag and put notes on it, calling it "racist."

Elenbass confirmed with our Grand Rapids NBC affiliate that there are no current plans to seek changes.

The official vote to keep or remove the statue is set to take place Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 7 p.m. at the Allendale Township Hall.

The analogy of Satan being an integral part of Christian history so let’s put up a few statues is actually brilliant.

Cameron wrote:I don't necessarily agree with every statue that's coming into the crosshairs, but I don't give one single fuck about any statue that isn't on Liberty Island. They could tear down every single one and it wouldn't affect my life one bit. If not for the internet, I wouldn't even notice.

If you don't add the Sparty statue to your exclusion list, you're a blue.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Cameron wrote:I don't necessarily agree with every statue that's coming into the crosshairs, but I don't give one single fuck about any statue that isn't on Liberty Island. They could tear down every single one and it wouldn't affect my life one bit. If not for the internet, I wouldn't even notice.

If you don't add the Sparty statue to your exclusion list, you're a blue.

Fuck me, you're right. That's an egregious oversight. I care more about Sparty than I do about lady liberty.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Cameron wrote:I don't necessarily agree with every statue that's coming into the crosshairs, but I don't give one single fuck about any statue that isn't on Liberty Island. They could tear down every single one and it wouldn't affect my life one bit. If not for the internet, I wouldn't even notice.

This. I don’t think anyone begging for a “conversation” about a statue in Madison WI would be invited to a conversation about a statue in Madison WI in the first place. It sounds like the fine people of Madison WI had their own conversation and decided they didn’t want the statue. We just weren’t invited to it. Which is fine and up to them.

Fair enough, there's a statue in Chicago I've always hated by an individual that said hateful things about Detroit Pistons. I'd like to get together a mob and rip down that terrible Michael Jordan Statue.

kingstonlake wrote:Random thoughts

I’ve stated I’m just not emotionally invested in bringing them down.
Steve’s right, mob rules gets us no where. It’s getting ridiculous. I understand feelings about bringing them down. I’m not really concerned what any white person thinks about them. I’m only interested in what people of color feel about them. I can completely respect the reasons why they would want them down. I’m just not there. But I understand.

You just can't have a mob showing up defacing property and destroying property. Yes, the mob got it right several times and I love seeing a statue of a confederate bigot getting destroyed but tearing down a statue of Grant? Or this guy I never heard of before in Madison Wisconsin that was a war hero and fought against slavery? That's a bridge too far for me.

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

This. I don’t think anyone begging for a “conversation” about a statue in Madison WI would be invited to a conversation about a statue in Madison WI in the first place. It sounds like the fine people of Madison WI had their own conversation and decided they didn’t want the statue. We just weren’t invited to it. Which is fine and up to them.

Fair enough, there's a statue in Chicago I've always hated by an individual that said hateful things about Detroit Pistons. I'd like to get together a mob and rip down that terrible Michael Jordan Statue.

I encourage you to try.

Cameron wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Fair enough, there's a statue in Chicago I've always hated by an individual that said hateful things about Detroit Pistons. I'd like to get together a mob and rip down that terrible Michael Jordan Statue.

I encourage you to try.

I would do it at 3am during this lock down when no one is out. Sneak attack on the statue.

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

This. I don’t think anyone begging for a “conversation” about a statue in Madison WI would be invited to a conversation about a statue in Madison WI in the first place. It sounds like the fine people of Madison WI had their own conversation and decided they didn’t want the statue. We just weren’t invited to it. Which is fine and up to them.

Fair enough, there's a statue in Chicago I've always hated by an individual that said hateful things about Detroit Pistons. I'd like to get together a mob and rip down that terrible Michael Jordan Statue.

Are you a resident of Chicago? No? Then I think you didn’t catch what I said.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Fair enough, there's a statue in Chicago I've always hated by an individual that said hateful things about Detroit Pistons. I'd like to get together a mob and rip down that terrible Michael Jordan Statue.

Are you a resident of Chicago? No? Then I think you didn’t catch what I said.

The unruly mob in Madison, WI were a complete disgrace and everyone serious about equality should call them out. A lawless mob has no place in the cause.

Shrug.gif

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/us/tim-carpenter-wisconsin-senator-protest.html

"Mr. Carpenter told The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel that he’d stopped to take a photo of the protests, and he posted a video on Twitter that showed a large group of protesters standing in the street near the Capitol shouting. Two protesters can be seen running over to Mr. Carpenter, and one grabs his phone. The camera swerves.

“Leave my phone alone,” he can be heard saying. “Delete it!” a woman says. As news of the confrontation spread on social media, Mr. Carpenter tweeted that taking the images “got me assaulted & beat up” by eight to 10 people. He said that he may have had a concussion, that the vision in his left eye was blurry, and that he had a sore neck and ribs."
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“Sad thing I’m on their side for peaceful demonstrations — am a Gay Progressive Dem Senator served 36 years in the legislature.”

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There's no place for this in the cause. Violence is not the answer.

Why not

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Why not

Peace is the only answer.

Why

I mean, been trying peace for a few hundred years. Hasn’t worked out. Peace was tried by taking a knee and were mocked and locked out of jobs. Peaceful demonstrations after cops kill a guy are ignored by your vaunted New York Times time and time again. Maybe some shit needs to burn. If one or two statues gets taken out that shouldn’t be, well I already told you, I don’t give a fuck.

Oh then vote! They’re putting up one polling place for 600,000 people. Peace might just not be an option steve and you should maybe consider that.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I mean, been trying peace for a few hundred years. Hasn’t worked out. Peace was tried by taking a knee and were mocked and locked out of jobs. Peaceful demonstrations after cops kill a guy are ignored by your vaunted New York Times time and time again. Maybe some shit needs to burn. If one or two statues gets taken out that shouldn’t be, well I already told you, I don’t give a fuck.

Oh then vote! They’re putting up one polling place for 600,000 people. Peace might just not be an option steve and you should maybe consider that.

Don't worry, Travis, Biden will fix everything!

Yay!!!!!

If it wasn’t native Americans that toppled the Columbus statue in Baltimore then fuck every one of them.

Give an inch, take a mile.

kingstonlake wrote:If it wasn’t native Americans that toppled the Columbus statue in Baltimore then fuck every one of them.

Give an inch, take a mile.

Fuck Christopher Columbus.

How is a motherfucker given credit for discovering a place where people already lived?

Cameron wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:If it wasn’t native Americans that toppled the Columbus statue in Baltimore then fuck every one of them.

Give an inch, take a mile.

Fuck Christopher Columbus.

How is a motherfucker given credit for discovering a place where people already lived?

lol, that wasn't really my point.

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:
Fuck Christopher Columbus.

How is a motherfucker given credit for discovering a place where people already lived?

lol, that wasn't really my point.

What was your point, then?

Cameron wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

lol, that wasn't really my point.

What was your point, then?

Never mind Cam. We’re good.

Cool. So you had no point. Got it.

Cameron wrote:Cool. So you had no point. Got it.

No. You don’t get it. That’s my point.

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:Cool. So you had no point. Got it.

No. You don’t get it. That’s my point.

So your initial point in bringing up the Columbus statue and worrying about the ethnicities of the people who took it down was that I, specifically, don't get it?

No, I suspect that you were gonna say something stupid, and now you don't want the smoke.

Cameron wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

No. You don’t get it. That’s my point.

So your initial point in bringing up the Columbus statue and worrying about the ethnicities of the people who took it down was that I, specifically, don't get it?

No, I suspect that you were gonna say something stupid, and now you don't want the smoke.

You're so edgy Cam.

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:
So your initial point in bringing up the Columbus statue and worrying about the ethnicities of the people who took it down was that I, specifically, don't get it?

No, I suspect that you were gonna say something stupid, and now you don't want the smoke.

You're so edgy Cam.  

What's your point?

Cameron wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

You're so edgy Cam.  

What's your point?

Good one, Nigel.

kingstonlake wrote:

Cameron wrote:

What's your point?

Good one, Nigel.

Hey, I'm totally willing to discuss the issue. You're the one who doesn't want to and would rather deflect.

DWags wrote:

It wasn't about tea.

Imagine if republicans cared as much about human life as they do statues.

When do the book burnings start?

kingstonlake wrote:When do the book burnings start?

You really are determined to be on the same side of this issue as Donnie, huh?

Cameron wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:When do the book burnings start?

You really are determined to be on the same side of this issue as Donnie, huh?

There it is. And you wonder why people don’t want to attempt legitimate conversation. What’s life like on the opposite side of the same coin?