ChampionsClassic - The March continues.

DWags wrote:Team with most potential.

Call it what you want, this was our best shot to beat them in a long time. 1-11 for a reason.

Izzo is a HOF coach except vs Duke or UNC.

So we could play them again in the “Please like us Phil Knight” Invitational next week right? Or how does that all work?

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:So we could play them again in the “Please like us Phil Knight” Invitational next week right? Or how does that all work?

I hope we never play duke or UNC again. Just another frustrating loss. We are out of our league vs UNC or Duke.

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:So we could play them again in the “Please like us Phil Knight” Invitational next week right? Or how does that all work?

I hope we never play duke or UNC again. Just another frustrating loss. We are out of our league vs UNC or Duke.

Well Steve we probably are going to play them again sorry

And their best/2nd best player was out with a poked eye

Kentucky looks great. I think they put away Kansas.

steveschneider wrote:Kentucky looks great. I think they put away Kansas.

They will* put away Kansas

Tonight was frustrating but I don't really think it means a whole lot guys. Probably shouldn't react too much to Game #2.

This was the 5th time in the KenPom era that an MSU opponent rebounded >50% of its misses (KenPom rank)
2018 Duke (4)
2010 Indiana (194 (!))
2008 Memphis (2)
2008 UCLA (3)
2004 Duke (1)

https://twitter.com/McMathketball/status/930654322223927296

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Tonight was frustrating but I don't really think it means a whole lot guys. Probably shouldn't react too much to Game #2.

I kind of agree, but there is a larger issue we just can’t beat Duke. Let’s hope we avoid UNC or Duke in March!

steveschneider wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Tonight was frustrating but I don't really think it means a whole lot guys. Probably shouldn't react too much to Game #2.

I kind of agree, but there is a larger issue we just can’t beat Duke. Let’s hope we avoid UNC or Duke in March!

Yeah but steve we just can't beat them because they have better players/athletes than we do in general and Duke has a very good coach. You just have to hope that some years we have the experience and nuts to knock out a team of theirs that doesn't quite have that moxxy. It still could be this year. We know they will get better but we certainly will, too and MSU has never played their best basketball in November.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Tonight was frustrating but I don't really think it means a whole lot guys. Probably shouldn't react too much to Game #2.

Scrap it

NigelUno wrote:

MattyFresh wrote:This was the 5th time in the KenPom era that an MSU opponent rebounded >50% of its misses (KenPom rank)
2018 Duke (4)
2010 Indiana (194 (!))
2008 Memphis (2)
2008 UCLA (3)
2004 Duke (1)

https://twitter.com/McMathketball/status/930654322223927296

Don't let OTPT see that.

No idea what those charts mean, but OTPT woulda definitely kicked Winston's ass at HORSE today.

Back off idiots. OTPT has a 46" vert.

Tum didn’t play that bad when you compare him to almost everyone else who pooped their pants, including the coach.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

I kind of agree, but there is a larger issue we just can’t beat Duke. Let’s hope we avoid UNC or Duke in March!

Yeah but steve we just can't beat them because they have better players/athletes than we do in general and Duke has a very good coach. You just have to hope that some years we have the experience and nuts to knock out a team of theirs that doesn't quite have that moxxy. It still could be this year. We know they will get better but we certainly will, too and MSU has never played their best basketball in November.

This x10000000

I'd also add that to Izzo (as has been the case in the non conference for 20 years) this game was prep for March. It's why he rotated so deep. 4 min left in a close game and Goins and Carter are the big men on the floor, probably our 4th/5th choice biggies. Why? Because come March (or even any time before that), what happens if Ward, Schilling, or Jackson are injured or in foul trouble? To borrow Comp's line, 30 games to get your crap together. Have them face that situation now so that it's not new if they're called upon in games that matter.

Yeah, we lost. Duke owns us. Meh, big deal. Is this loss going to hurt us in March/April? Would winning this game have helped us in March/April? We have won 1 of the last 3 against them in games that mattered a lick. Not so awful considering the last of those we were a 7 seed against a 1 seed.

FWIW, I've thought it equally unimportant when we've beaten Kentucky, Kansas, etc. in Nov/Dec.

One other thought on the game how come Wendel carter wasn’t ejected? I still think we lose the game, but that was an elbow delivered straight to the face. What does it take for a Duke player to get ejected?

steveschneider wrote:One other thought on the game how come Wendel carter wasn’t ejected? I still think we lose the game, but that was an elbow delivered straight to the face. What does it take for a Duke player to get ejected?

Would have lost*

Recruiting rankings are nice and all, but I expected more out of our sophomores and upperclassmen. Winston got burned on defense multiple times, mcquaid looked timid, and they all didn’t know how to react to a zone. The whole “this gets us ready for March” argument is valid for playing anyone but duke or unc. Let’s hope they get upset early.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Recruiting rankings are nice and all, but I expected more out of our sophomores and upperclassmen. Winston got burned on defense multiple times, mcquaid looked timid, and they all didn’t know how to react to a zone. The whole “this gets us ready for March” argument is valid for playing anyone but duke or unc. Let’s hope they get upset early.

Playing Duke doesn't get you ready for playing Duke?

Clarett's Folly wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Recruiting rankings are nice and all, but I expected more out of our sophomores and upperclassmen. Winston got burned on defense multiple times, mcquaid looked timid, and they all didn’t know how to react to a zone. The whole “this gets us ready for March” argument is valid for playing anyone but duke or unc. Let’s hope they get upset early.

Playing Duke doesn't get you ready for playing Duke?

Izzo’s record against them may suggest nothing gets us ready vs them, brah.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Clarett's Folly wrote:

Playing Duke doesn't get you ready for playing Duke?

Izzo’s record against them may suggest nothing gets us ready vs them, brah.

Right, but that's because they're Duke. Literally no one has a good record against them.
I guess I don't see what you were getting at in your original post. It's like you were surprised the #1 team in the country looked like the #1 team in the country.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Clarett's Folly wrote:

Playing Duke doesn't get you ready for playing Duke?

Izzo’s record against them may suggest nothing gets us ready vs them, brah.

7 of the 11 games against Duke under Izzo have been in November or early December. It's tough to get ready for Duke when MSU generally doesn't play them for another 12 months or more.

I’ll be a lot more bothered if we lose to UNC in the Nike suck up tournament next week.

NigelUno wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Recruiting rankings are nice and all, but I expected more out of our sophomores and upperclassmen. Winston got burned on defense multiple times, mcquaid looked timid, and they all didn’t know how to react to a zone. The whole “this gets us ready for March” argument is valid for playing anyone but duke or unc. Let’s hope they get upset early.

Allen got hot and hit 7-11 3's.

A career high in points.  Dude can shoot.

It's got nothing to do with defense.  He hit shots with people on him.

He was the outlier.  If Langford, McQuaid, or Winston knocked down some 3's instead of going a collective 1/10 and Allen misses a few...it's a different game.

Sometimes the shots go in.  Sometimes they don't.

Grayson is damn good at college but there's something unimpressive about watching a guy that should have gone pro his sophomore year stick around in college (aka a developmental league) to dominate inferior talent.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I'm not sure why we're unable to say "we got beat".. there's no shame in losing to the #1 team in the country.

Yes, it's November.. yes, both teams will be completely different when March rolls around - but we lost to a team that started 4 freshman and played a majority of the game without one of them... while their lone senior had a career night.

so we can call them names, whine about officiating, etc - fact is, the better team that made fewer mistakes won last night.

let's trust that MSU will work hard and continue to improve and let's try not to be the fanbase that we claim to despise.

Get real, Bob. November is the perfect time of year to overreact on college basketball.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I'm not sure why we're unable to say "we got beat".. there's no shame in losing to the #1 team in the country.

Yes, it's November.. yes, both teams will be completely different when March rolls around - but we lost to a team that started 4 freshman and played a majority of the game without one of them... while their lone senior had a career night.

so we can call them names, whine about officiating, etc - fact is, the better team that made fewer mistakes won last night.

let's trust that MSU will work hard and continue to improve and let's try not to be the fanbase that we claim to despise.

Yeah, seconded. Duke's a hell of a good team and a hell of a good program. There is no shame in losing to them. We don't have a Duke in the Big Ten, we're in for a good season.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:I'm not sure why we're unable to say "we got beat".. there's no shame in losing to the #1 team in the country.

Yes, it's November.. yes, both teams will be completely different when March rolls around - but we lost to a team that started 4 freshman and played a majority of the game without one of them... while their lone senior had a career night.

so we can call them names, whine about officiating, etc - fact is, the better team that made fewer mistakes won last night.

let's trust that MSU will work hard and continue to improve and let's try not to be the fanbase that we claim to despise.

Fuck you and the monster truck you rode in on.

Floyd Robertson wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Izzo’s record against them may suggest nothing gets us ready vs them, brah.

7 of the 11 games against Duke under Izzo have been in November or early December. It's tough to get ready for Duke when MSU generally doesn't play them for another 12 months or more.

And we've won one of the four that matters. I don't think that's awful, and considering the circumstances is fairly decent.

1999 - ok, we, including Izzo, were brand new to this Final Four thing. Duke was experienced, both as a program and the players, and a damn good team.

2005 - We were a 5 seed and beat 1 seed Duke.

2013 - We were what, 2 and 3 seeds and lost. We were fairly equivalent going in.

2015 - We were a 7 seed and lost to 1 seeded Duke. Player/talent difference.

Those 4 are all that matters. Considering the circumstances of each we've done OK.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Floyd Robertson wrote:

7 of the 11 games against Duke under Izzo have been in November or early December. It's tough to get ready for Duke when MSU generally doesn't play them for another 12 months or more.

And we've won one of the four that matters.  I don't think that's awful, and considering the circumstances is fairly decent.  

1999 - ok, we, including Izzo, were brand new to this Final Four thing.  Duke was experienced, both as a program and the players, and a damn good team.

2005 - We were a 5 seed and beat 1 seed Duke.  

2013 - We were what, 2 and 3 seeds and lost.  We were fairly equivalent going in.

2015 - We were a 7 seed and lost to 1 seeded Duke.  Player/talent difference.

Those 4 are all that matters.  Considering the circumstances of each we've done OK.

Exactly.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Floyd Robertson wrote:

7 of the 11 games against Duke under Izzo have been in November or early December. It's tough to get ready for Duke when MSU generally doesn't play them for another 12 months or more.

And we've won one of the four that matters. I don't think that's awful, and considering the circumstances is fairly decent.

1999 - ok, we, including Izzo, were brand new to this Final Four thing. Duke was experienced, both as a program and the players, and a damn good team.

2005 - We were a 5 seed and beat 1 seed Duke.

2013 - We were what, 2 and 3 seeds and lost. We were fairly equivalent going in.

2015 - We were a 7 seed and lost to 1 seeded Duke. Player/talent difference.

Those 4 are all that matters. Considering the circumstances of each we've done OK.

I've also found myself wondering who actually has a good record against Duke.

If I had to take a guess I'd say Roy Williams and UNC and maybe John Calipari and Kentucky. I'd be surprised if there was any other coach with an above 33% win percentage against Duke. There's probably some outlier like Leonard Hamilton at Florida State or something.

Clarett's Folly wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Izzo’s record against them may suggest nothing gets us ready vs them, brah.

Right, but that's because they're Duke. Literally no one has a good record against them.
I guess I don't see what you were getting at in your original post. It's like you were surprised the #1 team in the country looked like the #1 team in the country.

I don’t think they looked all that great, to be honest. They skullfucked us on the boards, hit some timely shots, but other than that it was all Allen and the guy who got poked in the eye. There were a lot of times where we would over help on a drive and give them open looks. Yeah Grayson hit some tough ones but he had a few where nobody was in the area - sure that drove Izzo nuts. The guy is killing us, someone get in his face.

Who plays zone in the big ten? Michigan? Wisconsin? That zone pretty much nullified Bridges’ driving ability. Couldn’t get Ward in many post up situations, just off a cut and pass.