Like many of you, I don’t have an answer for the roads either

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:
I got a bill in the mail from a highway I used in Indiana on the way home from Florida. Didn't even know it was a toll. Last time I checked there were plenty of exits in Indianapolis.

The algebra equation is to imply that any cost greater than 0 is just throwing money away that could be used on the roads directly. They’re both use taxes, one costs nothing and the other costs, well, yyy.

So forget the long term in favor of the short term?

Floyd Robertson wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

None on 80W or 80E in Penn. I drive by Scranton some times and none up there either. New Jersey now that's a different story. To steal an old George Carlin joke, you can't back out of your driveway without paying a toll.

I'm confused, the PA Turnpike goes from Philly to Ohio, where it turns into the OH Turnpike?

PA Turnpike Current Road Conditions

Looks like the PA Turnpike is still alive and well. Steve just takes 80 across to NYC, while the Turnpike has a more Southern route to Philly, so that makes sense that he's never seen anything about tolls.

The Pennsylvania turnpike which turns into the Ohio Turnpike when you cross the border goes from roughly Youngstown to Philly.  Spent way too many miles on that thing.  Brutal in the winter.  Also, it's in billions in debt right now.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Floyd Robertson wrote:

I'm confused, the PA Turnpike goes from Philly to Ohio, where it turns into the OH Turnpike?

PA Turnpike Current Road Conditions

Looks like the PA Turnpike is still alive and well. Steve just takes 80 across to NYC, while the Turnpike has a more Southern route to Philly, so that makes sense that he's never seen anything about tolls.

I finally get it now that you mention it. For some reason I thought they were one one in the same.

StylesGShmooth wrote:The Pennsylvania turnpike which turns into the Ohio Turnpike when you cross the border goes from roughly Youngstown to Philly.  Spent way too many miles on that thing.  Brutal in the winter.  Also, it's in billions in debt right now.

Driving 80 W and E sucks too. Absolutely brutal drive. That state goes on forever and it's two lanes loaded with lots of congestion with semis.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

The algebra equation is to imply that any cost greater than 0 is just throwing money away that could be used on the roads directly. They’re both use taxes, one costs nothing and the other costs, well, yyy.

So forget the long term in favor of the short term?

I mean I’d rather we focus on building out public transit, especially railways, and making that feasible but sure.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
So forget the long term in favor of the short term?

I mean I’d rather we focus on building out public transit, especially railways, and making that feasible but sure.

Elon Musk is failing us with his boring stuff. Should be spending his spare time and energy on teleportation.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
So forget the long term in favor of the short term?

I mean I’d rather we focus on building out public transit, especially railways, and making that feasible but sure.

Now THAT is seriously long term. Not the building of it (though that would take a while, too), but rather the biggest challenge there is changing the culture and mindset of the area to be open to public transportation. It's not a matter of if you build it, they will come. It would likely take a decade, maybe two, to really start to pay off. (I'm not just speaking out of my ass, but rather based on conversations with c-level executives trying to change that perception in another market that is overwhelmingly predisposed to driving, with shitty public transit, not unlike Detroit).

Either way, I'm not sure how that will fix the roads.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

I mean I’d rather we focus on building out public transit, especially railways, and making that feasible but sure.

Now THAT is seriously long term. Not the building of it (though that would take a while, too), but rather the biggest challenge there is changing the culture and mindset of the area to be open to public transportation. It's not a matter of if you build it, they will come. It would likely take a decade, maybe two, to really start to pay off. (I'm not just speaking out of my ass, but rather based on conversations with c-level executives trying to change that perception in another market that is overwhelmingly predisposed to driving, with shitty public transit, not unlike Detroit).

Either way, I'm not sure how that will fix the roads.

If rail replaced a bulk of highway traffic then you wouldn’t need as much money for fixing up the most expensive roads anymore. You could then use that money to fix up roads that are still heavily relied upon (like city streets and such.)

Regadless, there doesn’t exist an answer that doesn’t involve everyone paying more money. Whether it’s tolls or gas tax or whatever else, we can’t just invent money to build roads. This whole thread is mostly just semantics of how we want to be taxed for it, which is kinda funny in a way.

I’m with travis. More cars and better roads are not the answer. Denver/CO has a hell of a light rail system and its improved the city and surround areas greatly. A lot of work to do with the amount of people moving here.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Now THAT is seriously long term. Not the building of it (though that would take a while, too), but rather the biggest challenge there is changing the culture and mindset of the area to be open to public transportation. It's not a matter of if you build it, they will come. It would likely take a decade, maybe two, to really start to pay off. (I'm not just speaking out of my ass, but rather based on conversations with c-level executives trying to change that perception in another market that is overwhelmingly predisposed to driving, with shitty public transit, not unlike Detroit).

Either way, I'm not sure how that will fix the roads.

If rail replaced a bulk of highway traffic then you wouldn’t need as much money for fixing up the most expensive roads anymore. You could then use that money to fix up roads that are still heavily relied upon (like city streets and such.)

Regadless, there doesn’t exist an answer that doesn’t involve everyone paying more money. Whether it’s tolls or gas tax or whatever else, we can’t just invent money to build roads. This whole thread is mostly just semantics of how we want to be taxed for it, which is kinda funny in a way.

Is there another way of fixing and maintaining public transportation or the highway system?

We don't need roads, we need tubes.

I say we divert funding from the space force to Star trek level beam me up Scotty type transportation.

kingstonlake wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

If rail replaced a bulk of highway traffic then you wouldn’t need as much money for fixing up the most expensive roads anymore. You could then use that money to fix up roads that are still heavily relied upon (like city streets and such.)

Regadless, there doesn’t exist an answer that doesn’t involve everyone paying more money. Whether it’s tolls or gas tax or whatever else, we can’t just invent money to build roads. This whole thread is mostly just semantics of how we want to be taxed for it, which is kinda funny in a way.

Is there another way of fixing and maintaining public transportation or the highway system?

Guess it depends on who you ask. Some wil certainly tell you that they can fix it without more money in a very “step 1- we’ll fix the roads without more money step 2- ???? Step 3- roads are fixed!” Kinda way.

Cameron wrote:We don't need roads, we need tubes.

In all seriousness (not really), if Robert Zemeckis didn't lie to us about the flying cars in 2015, this wouldn't be an issue. But no, he has to go all "Where we're going, we don't need roads". So everyone thought, "pshh, why the fuck should we worry about fixing the roads?"