Corporate Culture

In my immediate area of maybe my 10-12 closest colleagues, I'm the most conservative of all of us. And of those 10-12 folks, I'm the only straight white guy.  

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I’ve been trying pretty actively to stop saying “hey guys” in emails and meetings and such. I can be better than that and there are plenty of words to use. Not that anyone is offended or cares or would notice either way. But I can be better.

Guys has by far been the hardest term for me to correct. It’s an easy change writing, but it continues to slip out in discussions. It doesn’t help that many of the people I know still use it, including people with uteruses speaking to other people with uteruses.

Turtleneck wrote:I remember when Steve was all about major change. Now he is just another bot working on behalf of the white capitalist cisheteropatriarchy.

I once interviewed a capo in the Cishetero Patriarchy. Dude was a stone cold killer.

I feel like guys is basically gender neutral in many contexts. Frankly, anyone who gets offended by "guys" I generally suspect is acting in bad faith.

steveschneider wrote:We have an anti racist task force now (all of our board of directors are white guys btw) and in the coming months we are going to have pro-noun sensitivity training and we are going to have our preferred pronouns added to our email signature. Mine is just going to be 'Hey Dude'.

I don't think you are taking this seriously Steve.

Cameron wrote:I feel like guys is basically gender neutral in many contexts. Frankly, anyone who gets offended by "guys" I generally suspect is acting in bad faith.

I don’t think anyone does. But that doesn’t mean it’s something that I need to use when there are better options

steveschneider wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:I’ve been trying pretty actively to stop saying “hey guys” in emails and meetings and such. I can be better than that and there are plenty of words to use. Not that anyone is offended or cares or would notice either way. But I can be better.

I know someone that is non-binary now and it's VERY difficult for me. I can't ask 'would she like me to pick up a coffee' I have to say 'would they like me to pick up a coffee'. I'm all for doing this but I think there needs to be an understanding for slip ups as well.

Maybe you should try harder, Steve.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Cameron wrote:I feel like guys is basically gender neutral in many contexts. Frankly, anyone who gets offended by "guys" I generally suspect is acting in bad faith.

I don’t think anyone does. But that doesn’t mean it’s something that I need to use when there are better options

The only reason I became aware of guys being an issue is because I heard someone gently correct someone else. First and only time, but if it helps others feel more included, it’s worth the change.

Turtleneck wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

I know someone that is non-binary now and it's VERY difficult for me. I can't ask 'would she like me to pick up a coffee' I have to say 'would they like me to pick up a coffee'. I'm all for doing this but I think there needs to be an understanding for slip ups as well.

Maybe you should try harder, Steve.

Try is for the weak. Do it or don’t.

Steve has gotten pretty selfish. He’s out of my will.

Fuck this pronoun stuff.

I'd rather reflect reality then what someone's feelings are. At what point is this just silly?

He/it... I identify as a granite countertop. Call me soapstone and I will figuratively beat you with my woke self righteousness.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Fuck this pronoun stuff.

I'd rather reflect reality then what someone's feelings are. At what point is this just silly?

He/it... I identify as a granite countertop. Call me soapstone and I will figuratively beat you with my woke self righteousness.

Are we going AvgMSUSoapstone or SoapstoneMSUJoe

CORNER BLITZ wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Fuck this pronoun stuff.

I'd rather reflect reality then what someone's feelings are. At what point is this just silly?

He/it... I identify as a granite countertop. Call me soapstone and I will figuratively beat you with my woke self righteousness.

Are we going AvgMSUSoapstone or SoapstoneMSUJoe

Granite motherfucker!!!

Why does your reality have to be everybody else’s reality? Who are you to determine what is real and what is not? Why do you demand we conform? And what is it we are conforming to? This is what we are conforming to: some bullshit knowledge constructed to push people into categories and then assign them roles. Fuck that noise.

I'm happy to use whatever real pronoun anyone wants. If they insist on making up their own, I'm just gonna refer to them by name all the time. Much easier.

Why does "woke" require everyone bend to the exception not the rule? Who decided that no pronouns can be used because Shelia in accounting wasn't born with a weiner.

I believe this is the sort of thing the lib echo chamber blows up in social media (ala social dilemma) which then makes everything else they care about look less valid.

Cameron wrote:I'm happy to use whatever real pronoun anyone wants. If they insist on making up their own, I'm just gonna refer to them by name all the time. Much easier.

I'm good with that too, but to set rules based on how someone might feel if they were trans is silly.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Why does "woke" require everyone bend to the exception not the rule? Who decided that no pronouns can be used because Shelia in accounting wasn't born with a weiner.

I believe this is the sort of thing the lib echo chamber blows up in social media (ala social dilemma) which then makes everything else they care about look less valid.

I’m sorry it’s not 1950 anymore. Have you thought about moving to Mio? It’s around 1957 right now.

I may be crazy but I’m gonna accommodate others and not be an asshole. Some may find it more difficult, but you just look sad in the end. Good luck.

Putting aside the intentional snark for a moment, I simply want to accommodate and accept others like OTPT says. Ok, back to the snark.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

Cameron wrote:I'm happy to use whatever real pronoun anyone wants. If they insist on making up their own, I'm just gonna refer to them by name all the time. Much easier.

I'm good with that too, but to set rules based on how someone might feel if they were trans is silly.

It’s not just trans, a lot of people don’t want to be identified by gender so you have to use them or they. I’m all for doing it but 40+ years of talking my brain is so used to saying she/her/him/he/guys/men and dude it can be easy to slip up.

Last year we had sensitivity training and the point of that one was when someone is offended you are just supposed to shut up and listen to them tell you what you did wrong. If you get defensive then I guess that’s offensive. Again I’d like to point out our board of directors is all old white guys. I think half of this stuff just comes from some consultant or book on best practices that every Human Resources department in America has.

Oh yeah AVG Joe will love this one someone sent out a group email that ASAP is very passive aggressive and all the managers on the email were like thank you so much and I agree. So I think ASAP is another bad thing or if your company hasn’t embraced that one yet you can look cutting edge by forwarding along the article that calls out ASAP.

steveschneider wrote:Oh yeah AVG Joe will love this one someone sent out a group email that ASAP is very passive aggressive and all the managers on the email were like thank you so much and I agree. So I think ASAP is another bad thing or if your company hasn’t embraced that one yet you can look cutting edge by forwarding along the article that calls out ASAP.

That microaggression will not stand smh

Turtleneck wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Why does "woke" require everyone bend to the exception not the rule? Who decided that no pronouns can be used because Shelia in accounting wasn't born with a weiner.

I believe this is the sort of thing the lib echo chamber blows up in social media (ala social dilemma) which then makes everything else they care about look less valid.

I’m sorry it’s not 1950 anymore. Have you thought about moving to Mio? It’s around 1957 right now.

I think the echo chamber is making us call a tree a rock, as the rule. If a tree asks to be called a rock, fine. But making the rule for the exception isn't right.

I think woke shaming is as bad as maga-ism. All for rights and preferences, but when that shit turns into "rules" and "standards" based on social media pressure, it crosses the line.

QuartzMSUJoe wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

I’m sorry it’s not 1950 anymore. Have you thought about moving to Mio? It’s around 1957 right now.

I think the echo chamber is making us call a tree a rock, as the rule. If a tree asks to be called a rock, fine. But making the rule for the exception isn't right.

I think woke shaming is as bad as maga-ism. All for rights and preferences, but when that shit turns into "rules" and "standards" based on social media pressure, it crosses the line.

didn't know you were Jordan Peterson

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Why does "woke" require everyone bend to the exception not the rule? Who decided that no pronouns can be used because Shelia in accounting wasn't born with a weiner.

I believe this is the sort of thing the lib echo chamber blows up in social media (ala social dilemma) which then makes everything else they care about look less valid.

dude, do what ya want.. I just appreciate you bringing Sheila from accounting into the conversation..



the dance floor at the 1985 Homecoming dance paid great homage to Sheila in accounting.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

I’m sorry it’s not 1950 anymore. Have you thought about moving to Mio? It’s around 1957 right now.

I think the echo chamber is making us call a tree a rock, as the rule. If a tree asks to be called a rock, fine. But making the rule for the exception isn't right.

I think woke shaming is as bad as maga-ism. All for rights and preferences, but when that shit turns into "rules" and "standards" based on social media pressure, it crosses the line.

Seems contradictory. You resist what you see as preferences transitioning into "rules" and "standards" by expecting others to live by what are essentially "rules" and "standards" acceptable to you.

I can see the confusion around how a movement against conformity turns into movement that seeks conformity, but I also feel like acknowledging other's identity, whatever it might be, is fundamental to respecting the dignity of human life.

I also think it is easier to resist and be confused when you have largely experienced life from a different position, and been exposed to a different reality that is not shared by all.

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

Turtleneck wrote:

I’m sorry it’s not 1950 anymore. Have you thought about moving to Mio? It’s around 1957 right now.

I think the echo chamber is making us call a tree a rock, as the rule. If a tree asks to be called a rock, fine. But making the rule for the exception isn't right.

I think woke shaming is as bad as maga-ism. All for rights and preferences, but when that shit turns into "rules" and "standards" based on social media pressure, it crosses the line.

It's tough because I like saying 'sup dude, but now you gotta say 'sup you.

CORNER BLITZ wrote:

steveschneider wrote:Oh yeah AVG Joe will love this one someone sent out a group email that ASAP is very passive aggressive and all the managers on the email were like thank you so much and I agree. So I think ASAP is another bad thing or if your company hasn’t embraced that one yet you can look cutting edge by forwarding along the article that calls out ASAP.

That microaggression will not stand smh

Kind of related, I'm old enough to remember when the O word became unacceptable and we transitioned over to the preferred nomenclature. I was on board with it and happy to show respect.

We are also way off topic. Steve is concerned about corporate culture, but has demonstrated a willingness to take credit for other's hard work (trying to take credit for Nordic's late season BB heroics) and not doing the work he has committed himself to doing (where is your radio show, Steve?). This cannot stand.

I have no idea what the O word is

Who says "Hey guys" in emails? Seems way too informal/unprofessional. Try "Good morning/afternoon all/everyone" for a group. If it's just two people, I go with "Good morning/afternoon Bob & Steve". Problem solved.

I've set up my email to automagically insert:

Good morning,

Thank you,

Heat Miser
305-up-yours (I would love to get this #)

Then I just change morning to afternoon if necessary & add the body. "Hey guys"? What kind of amateur operations do you people work for?

As for meetings/calls, a simple good morning/afternoon does the job. No possibility of offense. Simple stuff really.

CORNER BLITZ wrote:I have no idea what the O word is

Orgasm?

steveschneider wrote:

AvgMSUJoe wrote:
I think the echo chamber is making us call a tree a rock, as the rule. If a tree asks to be called a rock, fine. But making the rule for the exception isn't right.

I think woke shaming is as bad as maga-ism. All for rights and preferences, but when that shit turns into "rules" and "standards" based on social media pressure, it crosses the line.

It's tough because I like saying 'sup dude, but now you gotta say 'sup you.

Are you for real? I had no idea, Steve. That is absolutely horrible. How are you getting by? I just can't believe another person would impose on you like that. It is truly horrifying. PM me if you need anything. Here for you, pal.

Heat Miser wrote:Who says "Hey guys" in emails? Seems way too informal/unprofessional. Try "Good morning/afternoon all/everyone" for a group. If it's just two people, I go with "Good morning/afternoon Bob & Steve". Problem solved.

I've set up my email to automagically insert:

Good morning,

Thank you,

Heat Miser
305-up-yours (I would love to get this #)

Then I just change morning to afternoon if necessary & add the body. "Hey guys"? What kind of amateur operations do you people work for?

As for meetings/calls, a simple good morning/afternoon does the job. No possibility of offense. Simple stuff really.

I've gotten multiple emails

"Good afternoon Corner & Blitz" completely ignoring the actual other person on the email chain

Maybe it was my upbringing but at my school kids called each other 'butt hole' and yes back in the 80's on the playground we'd call eachother the three letter F word. At the time I just thought it was synonymous with 'dork' or 'nerd' and we really didn't know any better. Those were innocent times but I think growing up through it is why I'm not so easily offended.

Heat Miser wrote:

CORNER BLITZ wrote:I have no idea what the O word is

Orgasm?

Probably why I've never heard of it

steveschneider wrote:Maybe it was my upbringing but at my school kids called each other 'butt hole'  and yes back in the 80's on the playground we'd call eachother the three letter F word. At the time I just thought it was synonymous with 'dork' or 'nerd' and we really didn't know any better. Those were innocent times but I think growing up through it is why I'm not so easily offended.

A) You actually seem offended, Steve. Offended at the idea that you cannot just say whatever. You might be the actual snowflake in this scenario.

B) Why do your experiences in life have to be imposed on everybody around you? You're not special, bro.

Heat Miser wrote:Who says "Hey guys" in emails? Seems way too informal/unprofessional. Try "Good morning/afternoon all/everyone" for a group. If it's just two people, I go with "Good morning/afternoon Bob & Steve". Problem solved.

I've set up my email to automagically insert:

Good morning,

Thank you,

Heat Miser
305-up-yours (I would love to get this #)

Then I just change morning to afternoon if necessary & add the body. "Hey guys"? What kind of amateur operations do you people work for?

As for meetings/calls, a simple good morning/afternoon does the job. No possibility of offense. Simple stuff really.

Honestly, being more casual about an introduction is usually trying to demonstrate that I’m not here trying to assassinate you. Sometimes I am, in which case I won’t be casual. But here I’m trying to let you know that everything’s fine

Turtleneck wrote:

steveschneider wrote:Maybe it was my upbringing but at my school kids called each other 'butt hole'  and yes back in the 80's on the playground we'd call eachother the three letter F word. At the time I just thought it was synonymous with 'dork' or 'nerd' and we really didn't know any better. Those were innocent times but I think growing up through it is why I'm not so easily offended.

A) You actually seem offended, Steve. Offended at the idea that you cannot just say whatever. You might be the actual snowflake in this scenario.

B) Why does you experiences in life have to be imposed on everybody around you? You're not special, bro.

I'm a people person and love all my interactions with people be it positive or negative.