More Bull shit: Detroit news doing huge expose on Dantonio Blackwell and sex scandal.

Banks2Mason wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

This is all fair and are my thoughts as well. The admin seems like it’s been a mess for many years now.

Agreed with both of you. I've said for quite a while that the Nassar mess really revealed that the MSU admin and leadership was always just as incompetent and worthless as ever, but that Izzo (and later Dantonio) winning in the main revenue sports covered up a LOT of incompetence from the school and the AD.

Look no further than Klages and Joseph never being held accountable under Hollis, the collapse of the hockey program, etc.

If (as rumored) Secchia wanted Joseph (to remain) as softball coach, then Joseph was going to be softball coach.

Anastos was a bad hire, and the formation of a Big Ten hockey conference was bad for MSU. Hollis hired Cole though.

NigelUno wrote:

Banks2Mason wrote:

Agreed with both of you. I've said for quite a while that the Nassar mess really revealed that the MSU admin and leadership was always just as incompetent and worthless as ever, but that Izzo (and later Dantonio) winning in the main revenue sports covered up a LOT of incompetence from the school and the AD.

Look no further than Klages and Joseph never being held accountable under Hollis, the collapse of the hockey program, etc.

If (as rumored) Secchia wanted Joseph (to remain) as softball coach, then Joseph was going to be softball coach.

Anastos was a bad hire, and the formation of a Big Ten hockey conference was bad for MSU. Hollis hired Cole though.

yes, sorry Nigel. Hollis and the MSU admin have never done anything remotely incorrect in the history of ever. again, apologies for insinuating otherwise.

Banks2Mason wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

This is all fair and are my thoughts as well. The admin seems like it’s been a mess for many years now.

Agreed with both of you. I've said for quite a while that the Nassar mess really revealed that the MSU admin and leadership was always just as incompetent and worthless as ever, but that Izzo (and later Dantonio) winning in the main revenue sports covered up a LOT of incompetence from the school and the AD.

Look no further than Klages and Joseph never being held accountable under Hollis, the collapse of the hockey program, etc.

Winning, and the attention and money that comes with it, is enticing and addictive. Hollis enjoyed being an AD having inherited two coaches who were delivering in this regard. And you're right, the mess with volleyball, softball and hockey show you what Hollis does with leadership when it's not going well. We pay an AD to do that work, not just to bask in reflected glory. Simon clearly had no institutional control and the Nassar situation shows it went beyond athletics and into the medical school. Big egos and big money come with certain professions, and physicians are right there with athletics. Simon needed to be the adult in the room and wasn't.

Beekman serving as AD is the same as Mark shuffling around his coaching staff. Nothing really changes. My lesson from Penn State was that I, as an alumnus, will turn on the university leadership and any coach, any, if their actions embarrass or harm the university, or any student attending Michigan State. Hollis and Simon needed to go. I wrote President Simon and told her I thought she needed to resign, and that was early. I'm glad she is being charged. President Stanley needs to clean house, ensure a robust Title IX office and sexual assault process is in place, and athletics needs to have real supervision. Beekman's involvement here does not give me reason to believe he is capable of standing up to the ego and personality of a Dantonio or Izzo if needed.

And this situation aside, Mark is at the point where a "real AD" who go to him and say choose one....your resignation or at least 50% turnover on your staff. Any coach gets to have a great deal of autonomy when they.....win, graduate players, run a program that reflects positively on the university as a whole. Mason was our last real AD and he sacrificed a legendary coaching career to stabilize MSU athletics and drive out decades of institutional dysfunction. President Stanley is new but, along with the non-athletics lessons from Nassar, he needs to clean house in athletics and Beekman can be shuffled somewhere else. And even if you're just focused on winning, Izzo and Dantonio are coming into a window where they'll need to be replaced. Is there any reason to trust we've a team in place to make good decisions when we continue to get slapped in the face by these ugly realities?!

Banks2Mason wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

If (as rumored) Secchia wanted Joseph (to remain) as softball coach, then Joseph was going to be softball coach.  

Anastos was a bad hire, and the formation of a Big Ten hockey conference was  bad for MSU.  Hollis hired Cole though.  

yes, sorry Nigel. Hollis and the MSU admin have never done anything remotely incorrect in the history of ever. again, apologies for insinuating otherwise.

Yeah.  That's what I said.

I mean...you get that if Secchia didn't want Joseph fired, then she wouldn't get fired, right?  Blaming Hollis for that is naive.

I agree that Anastos was a bad hire.  If you want to discuss what has impacted the hockey program's success after Comley retired, then it's silly not to look at the impact that the Big Ten (hockey) conference had.

I noticed you didn't agree that Cole was a good hire.  Why not?

I’m not completely on board with the angle that Dantonio wanted to give Robertson a second chance. He wanted a great football player to play football at MSU. I do feel he believes in second chances to kids who’ve earned it within the program. He does believe in loyalty. But what’s the loyalty angle with Robertson? Hell, he pulls scholarship offers for attending others schools camps or “program days”. So if you pull a scholarship on that loyalty angle, then how do you bring a rapist on campus under the guise of “second chances” when you have no loyalty to the kid. Jesus he was a high schooler who hadn’t dropped an ounce of sweat for your program yet.

He wanted a football player.

NigelUno wrote:Hollis hired Cole though.

True. There was no search committee formed. He made two calls. Offered the job to George Gwozdecky who said no. And then he hired Danton. A "real AD" would form a search committee, vet a number of candidates, explore options, interview, etc. Hockey is a secondary sport in the grand scheme, and while Cole was a fine hire, Hollis did not conduct anything close to what any would be considered an appropriate search. The last time MSU conducted anything reasonable in terms of a search for a new hockey coach was 1979 when we hired Ron Mason from BG....

Heathens '87 wrote:

NigelUno wrote:Hollis hired Cole though.  

True.  There was no search committee formed.  He made two calls.  Offered the job to George Gwozdecky who said no.  And then he hired Danton.  A "real AD" would form a search committee, vet a number of candidates, explore options, interview, etc.  Hockey is a secondary sport in the grand scheme, and while Cole was a fine hire, Hollis did not conduct anything close to what any would be considered an appropriate search.  The last time MSU conducted anything reasonable in terms of a search for a new hockey coach was 1979 when we hired Ron Mason from BG....

Cole was a great hire.  

Knocking that hiring process is silly.  Come on.

I guess another question I have is how come Robertson was even allowed on the field in high school? Seems like a lot of this could have been avoided if his high school had one the right thing as well.

NigelUno wrote:

Cole was a great hire.  

Knocking that hiring process is silly.  Come on.

I'm not knocking a process as there was no process. Cole, by all standards, appears to be a fine hire. When we're back in the NCAA tournament winning games, absolutely, it'll be a great hire. But there was no process. Cole was a back-up candidate, he understood that and wanted the job because he has a loyalty to our program that makes up for what his resume might lack. But no search committee, no process, no reaching out to anyone who was currently coaching a D-I program. I like what Danton is doing with the program. I had no issue with his being hired. But the lack of process to knock, yes, I think Mark Hollis was an ineffective and clueless administrator who hid behind the skirt of winning provided by Dantonio and Izzo....

NigelUno wrote:

Banks2Mason wrote:

yes, sorry Nigel. Hollis and the MSU admin have never done anything remotely incorrect in the history of ever. again, apologies for insinuating otherwise.

Yeah.  That's what I said.

I mean...you get that if Secchia didn't want Joseph fired, then she wouldn't get fired, right?  Blaming Hollis for that is naive.

I agree that Anastos was a bad hire.  If you want to discuss what has impacted the hockey program's success after Comley retired, then it's silly not to look at the impact that the Big Ten (hockey) conference had.

I noticed you didn't agree that Cole was a good hire.  Why not?

i just don't understand why you go so far out of your way to make technical and pedantic excuses for an ex-AD and an ex-President who have made MSU into a multi-year, nationwide whipping boy due in large part to their incompetence and myopia.

great, he hired a fucking hockey coach who (it appears) will be pretty good. guess that makes up for everything else?

steveschneider wrote:I guess another question I have is how come Robertson was even allowed on the field in high school? Seems like a lot of this could have been avoided if his high school had one the right thing as well.

There’s zero chance that MSU wasn’t aware of Robertson’s crimes whether he was on a high school football field or not.

steveschneider wrote:I guess another question I have is how come Robertson was even allowed on the field in high school? Seems like a lot of this could have been avoided if his high school had one the right thing as well.

His high school expelled him. We admitted a high school student who had been kicked out of school. As others have said, does that happen for someone who isn't a high-profile athlete?! There were red flags all over the place. Ultimately the choice to ignore those rests on the desk of Mark Dantonio given how our administration seems to function....

kingstonlake wrote:

steveschneider wrote:I guess another question I have is how come Robertson was even allowed on the field in high school? Seems like a lot of this could have been avoided if his high school had one the right thing as well.

There’s zero chance that MSU wasn’t aware of Robertson’s crimes whether he was on a high school football field or not.

and if they didn't, they certainly should have.

Heathens '87 wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Cole was a great hire.  

Knocking that hiring process is silly.  Come on.

I'm not knocking a process as there was no process. Cole, by all standards, appears to be a fine hire. When we're back in the NCAA tournament winning games, absolutely, it'll be a great hire. But there was no process. Cole was a back-up candidate, he understood that and wanted the job because he has a loyalty to our program that makes up for what his resume might lack. But no search committee, no process, no reaching out to anyone who was currently coaching a D-I program. I like what Danton is doing with the program. I had no issue with his being hired. But the lack of process to knock, yes, I think Mark Hollis was an ineffective and clueless administrator who hid behind the skirt of winning provided by Dantonio and Izzo....

You talked about what a "real AD" would do. Wouldn't a "real AD" (like an old school AD) just make a hire and not form a search committee?

You can knock Hollis for a lot of things. Knocking him for hiring Cole without forming a search committee seems silly.

NigelUno wrote:

Heathens '87 wrote:

I'm not knocking a process as there was no process. Cole, by all standards, appears to be a fine hire. When we're back in the NCAA tournament winning games, absolutely, it'll be a great hire. But there was no process. Cole was a back-up candidate, he understood that and wanted the job because he has a loyalty to our program that makes up for what his resume might lack. But no search committee, no process, no reaching out to anyone who was currently coaching a D-I program. I like what Danton is doing with the program. I had no issue with his being hired. But the lack of process to knock, yes, I think Mark Hollis was an ineffective and clueless administrator who hid behind the skirt of winning provided by Dantonio and Izzo....

You can knock Hollis for a lot of things.

like hiring a guy who hadn't been a head coach in 20 years and sitting idly by for six years while he dragged the program into the toilet?

NigelUno wrote:You talked about what a "real AD" would do. Wouldn't a "real AD" (like an old school AD) just make a hire and not form a search committee?

You can knock Hollis for a lot of things. Knocking him for hiring Cole without forming a search committee seems silly.

No. A "real AD" wouldn't just make a hire. Look at the process Mason put together when we hired Dantonio for an example of how to conduct an appropriate search. Look at Mason with Comley or Hollis with Anastos or Cole for how not to do it correctly. There were other candidates who should've been considered when we hired Cole. That's not a knock on Danton. Even a dysfunctional process can result in a good hire sometimes. Izzo is a perfect example as he's only our coach because Jud was willing to go to war.....

Heathens '87 wrote:

NigelUno wrote:You talked about what a "real AD" would do. Wouldn't a "real AD" (like an old school AD) just make a hire and not form a search committee?

You can knock Hollis for a lot of things. Knocking him for hiring Cole without forming a search committee seems silly.

No. A "real AD" wouldn't just make a hire. Look at the process Mason put together when we hired Dantonio for an example of how to conduct an appropriate search. Look at Mason with Comley or Hollis with Anastos or Cole for how not to do it correctly. There were other candidates who should've been considered when we hired Cole. That's not a knock on Danton. Even a dysfunctional process can result in a good hire sometimes. Izzo is a perfect example as he's only our coach because Jud was willing to go to war.....

not to mention that a "real AD" would have the balls to go up to Secchia and say, "listen, Pete, we appreciate all the money and the new stadium but we'd like to a put a not-always-in-last-place team inside it coached by someone accused of trying to bean her own players in practice. waddya think, Pete?"

Banks2Mason wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Yeah.  That's what I said.

I mean...you get that if Secchia didn't want Joseph fired, then she wouldn't get fired, right?  Blaming Hollis for that is naive.

I agree that Anastos was a bad hire.  If you want to discuss what has impacted the hockey program's success after Comley retired, then it's silly not to look at the impact that the Big Ten (hockey) conference had.

I noticed you didn't agree that Cole was a good hire.  Why not?

i just don't understand why you go so far out of your way to make technical and pedantic excuses for an ex-AD and an ex-President who have made MSU into a multi-year, nationwide whipping boy due in large part to their incompetence and myopia.

great, he hired a fucking hockey coach who (it appears) will be pretty good. guess that makes up for everything else?

I went so far out of my way to point out if Secchia wants Joseph as softball coach, then Joseph will be softball coach? Sounds pretty dramatic.

It's not an excuse. It's reality. You get that, right? I mean...please tell me you're not that naive.

And what excuses have I made for an ex-President? What the hell are you talking about? Just making shit up?

And if you want to blame Hollis for Anastos...I agreed. You saw that, right?

Then you have to credit him for hiring Cole. If you don't, then you're not being honest.

Banks2Mason wrote:

Heathens '87 wrote:

No. A "real AD" wouldn't just make a hire. Look at the process Mason put together when we hired Dantonio for an example of how to conduct an appropriate search. Look at Mason with Comley or Hollis with Anastos or Cole for how not to do it correctly. There were other candidates who should've been considered when we hired Cole. That's not a knock on Danton. Even a dysfunctional process can result in a good hire sometimes. Izzo is a perfect example as he's only our coach because Jud was willing to go to war.....

not to mention that a "real AD" would have the balls to go up to Secchia and say, "listen, Pete, we appreciate all the money and the new stadium but we'd like to a put a not-always-in-last-place team inside it coached by someone accused of trying to bean her own players in practice. waddya think, Pete?"

So, you are incredibly naive.

NigelUno wrote:

Banks2Mason wrote:

not to mention that a "real AD" would have the balls to go up to Secchia and say, "listen, Pete, we appreciate all the money and the new stadium but we'd like to a put a not-always-in-last-place team inside it coached by someone accused of trying to bean her own players in practice. waddya think, Pete?"

So, you are incredibly naive.

i'd love to see you actually point out that this is a fact other than your "as rumored" comment. big ten ADs get paid a fuckload of money to DIRECT ATHLETICS. getting pushed around by donors or BoT idiots like Ferguson is how we get into messes like this.

on the other hand, it's pretty damn clear that hollis didn't give a shit about anything not men's basketball or football and it ultimately contributed to the shitshow we're in now. i hope he's enjoying his cushy retirement out of the spotlight working for dan gilbert or whatever.

kingstonlake wrote:I’m not completely on board with the angle that Dantonio wanted to give Robertson a second chance. He wanted a great football player to play football at MSU. I do feel he believes in second chances to kids who’ve earned it within the program. He does believe in loyalty. But what’s the loyalty angle with Robertson? Hell, he pulls scholarship offers for attending others schools camps or “program days”. So if you pull a scholarship on that loyalty angle, then how do you bring a rapist on campus under the guise of “second chances” when you have no loyalty to the kid. Jesus he was a high schooler who hadn’t dropped an ounce of sweat for your program yet.

He wanted a football player.

Yeah the whole savior Dantonio was trying to save this kid is a load of shit and a total rcmb fanboy narrative. This wasn’t a “second chance” this was a repeated offender being allowed on campus because he could play football. College athletics (and higher ed) can be a dirty dirty business. It’s not surprising that the leadership of these aspects will be dirty or a little dirty as well. MSU is not an outlier or special case if you will.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:I’m not completely on board with the angle that Dantonio wanted to give Robertson a second chance. He wanted a great football player to play football at MSU. I do feel he believes in second chances to kids who’ve earned it within the program. He does believe in loyalty. But what’s the loyalty angle with Robertson? Hell, he  pulls scholarship offers for attending others schools camps or “program days”. So if you pull a scholarship on that loyalty angle, then how do you bring a rapist on campus under the guise of “second chances” when you have no loyalty to the kid. Jesus he was a high schooler who hadn’t dropped an ounce of sweat for your program yet.

He wanted a football player.

Yeah the whole savior Dantonio was trying to save this kid is a load of shit and a total rcmb fanboy narrative. This wasn’t a “second chance” this was a repeated offender being allowed on campus because he could play football. College athletics (and higher ed) can be a dirty dirty business. It’s not surprising that the leadership of these aspects will be dirty or a little dirty as well. MSU is not an outlier or special case if you will.

the "second chance" thing may have been his motivation but it's becoming more and more clear that such a second chance shouldn't have been extended to robertson (and not just with the benefit of hindsight). i mean, jayru did way less than that and got sent packing when he was like 16.

Banks2Mason wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

So, you are incredibly naive.

i'd love to see you actually point out that this is a fact other than your "as rumored" comment. big ten ADs get paid a fuckload of money to DIRECT ATHLETICS. getting pushed around by donors or BoT idiots like Ferguson is how we get into messes like this.

on the other hand, it's pretty damn clear that hollis didn't give a shit about anything not men's basketball or football and it ultimately contributed to the shitshow we're in now. i hope he's enjoying his cushy retirement out of the spotlight working for dan gilbert or whatever.

You want me to point something out as fact that I said was a rumor?

Off topic, but I'm glad you're championing the softball program. Ever been to a game?

Speaking of facts...I'm sure you can provide examples of me making excuses for an ex-President. Should I wait?

NigelUno wrote:

Banks2Mason wrote:

i'd love to see you actually point out that this is a fact other than your "as rumored" comment. big ten ADs get paid a fuckload of money to DIRECT ATHLETICS. getting pushed around by donors or BoT idiots like Ferguson is how we get into messes like this.

on the other hand, it's pretty damn clear that hollis didn't give a shit about anything not men's basketball or football and it ultimately contributed to the shitshow we're in now. i hope he's enjoying his cushy retirement out of the spotlight working for dan gilbert or whatever.

You want me to point something out as fact that I said was a rumor?  

Off topic, but I'm glad you're championing the softball program.  Ever been to a game?

Speaking of facts...I'm sure you can provide examples of me making excuses for an ex-President.  Should I wait?  

yeah no one has ever made up rumors about things happening on a college campus. now who's niave?

i don't give a shit about the softball program but i'm also not being paid handsomely to give a shit about that, and all the other non-revenue sports, like Hollis was. that's the point. what vested interest do you have in protecting his legacy on message boards? he was a really good marketer for quite awhile and apparently a horrible administrator.

if he only wanted to care about FB and MBB, he should have hired competent people to watch over the non-revenue sports, but he obviously didn't. he failed at the non-glamorous aspects of his job pretty spectacularly, and it doesn't appear to have been helped by the president's office.

MSU should have cleaned house and not just promoted Beekman. It's a terrible PR look, which is unfortunately what counts right now.

Heathens '87 wrote:There is a lot of complexity here and it's challenging to know the "truth" given we're relying somewhat on memory and perceptions. That said...

- Blackwell was rightly dismissed. His mentoring relationship made him more of a friend and confidant with players, they were accused of criminal acts and his response was more to protect the players as opposed to the alleged victims, the program and the university as a whole.

- Dantonio made a mistake in bringing Robertson to campus. He has long been one to give second chances and that pattern will eventually get you burned. That's happening here and rightly so. A young woman was sexually assaulted and it's more than fair to suggest that Mark shouldn't have put such a student on campus.

- That this was reviewed by a group of administrators brings the athletic department and the university as a whole into the situation. A well run institution would not allow a coach to gather such a group and then have a say in an admissions process. There are lines between the university admissions process and a football program at well-run and ethically grounded institutions for a reason. Along with the Nassar situation, we clearly see the administrative problems at MSU. That disturbs me as an alumnus.

I'm one who does not believe that Blackwell's lawsuit has merit but also believes this points at a lack of administrative oversight of athletics. I think Dantonio (and Izzo) basically have no supervision, that was true with Hollis and Beekman is there to continue this pattern. Success, to a degree, earns you this right but supervision then needs to turn to ensuring that right continues to be earned through both success and clarity that the program must represent the university well. Blackwell is just blowing this up to try to make his case. But my takeaway, besides thinking Blackwell should be thankful he wasn't charged, is that Hollis had absolutely no control over the athletic department; Simon did not lead; Dantonio needed some checks and balances on the type of athlete he was willing to bring in; and we should all remember that the center of this story isn't Mark, Curtis, Auston, etc. It's young women being sexually assaulted on our beloved campus. No football victory is worth taking that risk.....

Yep. Hard to argue with much of this. Your point about Dantonio is well taken. Knowing him and how he believes he can lead a kid into a better life is both an admirable quality and a naive one. You will get burnt if you try this too often. He did here. And, as you say, you can straighten out 20 kids, give them a much better life than they would have had, but it's not the 20 that will be remembered, it is the one or two that bite you in the ass that are remembered. I don't think there could be a better example of this, than what happened.

Stanley's move here. Tough position to be in. Sullivan has to help him here. She needs to get with him and make some calls. As far as Beekman, the program everything. End this stuff.

Banks2Mason wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

This is all fair and are my thoughts as well. The admin seems like it’s been a mess for many years now.

Agreed with both of you. I've said for quite a while that the Nassar mess really revealed that the MSU admin and leadership was always just as incompetent and worthless as ever, but that Izzo (and later Dantonio) winning in the main revenue sports covered up a LOT of incompetence from the school and the AD.

Look no further than Klages and Joseph never being held accountable under Hollis, the collapse of the hockey program, etc.

Honestly, there is a real sense of entitlement by old guard people still hanging around. If you ever go up there you know it's so. You see the old names and old faces and they have the good seats and they are still allowed to throw the cheer team off a plane because they need their cousins husband and his family to have a seat to get to Minnesota for the final four. It's almost a royalty system. Stanley can do something about this.

Make all coaches know they aren't owners of the programs, they are stewards of them. Keep them in good shape, and pass them on to the next guy. Let donors know we appreciate their patronage, but if they expect more from their generosity, we'll have to look elsewhere. That, I know is pie in the sky, but it probably has to be done at MSU.

kingstonlake wrote:I’m not completely on board with the angle that Dantonio wanted to give Robertson a second chance. He wanted a great football player to play football at MSU. I do feel he believes in second chances to kids who’ve earned it within the program. He does believe in loyalty. But what’s the loyalty angle with Robertson? Hell, he pulls scholarship offers for attending others schools camps or “program days”. So if you pull a scholarship on that loyalty angle, then how do you bring a rapist on campus under the guise of “second chances” when you have no loyalty to the kid. Jesus he was a high schooler who hadn’t dropped an ounce of sweat for your program yet.

He wanted a football player.

I think you're right. He wanted a football player. I also think he absolutely believed he could change the kids life. So, it' might be a bit of both. He obviously made a bad decision here.

Banks2Mason wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

You want me to point something out as fact that I said was a rumor?  

Off topic, but I'm glad you're championing the softball program.  Ever been to a game?

Speaking of facts...I'm sure you can provide examples of me making excuses for an ex-President.  Should I wait?  

yeah no one has ever made up rumors about things happening on a college campus. now who's niave?

i don't give a shit about the softball program but i'm also not being paid handsomely to give a shit about that, and all the other non-revenue sports, like Hollis was. that's the point. what vested interest do you have in protecting his legacy on message boards? he was a really good marketer for quite awhile and apparently a horrible administrator.

Anastos was a bad hire.
Cole was a good hire.

Had no idea that would upset you so much.

I'm not one of those lunatic RCMB goofs that talk about legacies.  

You brought up hockey.  I agreed Anastos was a bad hire.  You (for some reason) had a really difficult time saying Cole was a good hire.  

Why is it not OK to discuss that?  It really offends you that much?

Am I still waiting for you to provide examples of me sticking up for an ex-President? Or is that just something you made up?

DWags wrote:

Banks2Mason wrote:

Agreed with both of you. I've said for quite a while that the Nassar mess really revealed that the MSU admin and leadership was always just as incompetent and worthless as ever, but that Izzo (and later Dantonio) winning in the main revenue sports covered up a LOT of incompetence from the school and the AD.

Look no further than Klages and Joseph never being held accountable under Hollis, the collapse of the hockey program, etc.

Honestly, there is a real sense of entitlement by old guard people still hanging around. If you ever go up there you know it's so. You see the old names and old faces and they have the good seats and they are still allowed to throw the cheer team off a plane because they need their cousins husband and his family to have a seat to get to Minnesota for the final four. It's almost a royalty system. Stanley can do something about this.

Make all coaches know they aren't owners of the programs, they are stewards of them. Keep them in good shape, and pass them on to the next guy. Let donors know we appreciate their patronage, but if they expect more from their generosity, we'll have to look elsewhere. That, I know is pie in the sky, but it probably has to be done at MSU.

Good Ole Boys Club. It permeates the Athletic Department, BOT to some extent, Administration, everything.

NigelUno wrote:

Banks2Mason wrote:

yeah no one has ever made up rumors about things happening on a college campus. now who's niave?

i don't give a shit about the softball program but i'm also not being paid handsomely to give a shit about that, and all the other non-revenue sports, like Hollis was. that's the point. what vested interest do you have in protecting his legacy on message boards? he was a really good marketer for quite awhile and apparently a horrible administrator.

Anastos was a bad hire.
Cole was a good hire.

Had no idea that would upset you so much.

I'm not one of those lunatic RCMB goofs that talk about legacies.  

You brought up hockey.  I agreed Anastos was a bad hire.  You (for some reason) had a really difficult time saying Cole was a good hire.  

Why is it not OK to discuss that?  It really offends you that much?

Am I still waiting for you to provide examples of me sticking up for an ex-President? Or is that just something you made up?

Cole appears to be a good hire but crowning him already is ridiculous and I suspect you know it.

Anastos was worse than a bad hire. It was idiotic at the time and Hollis did nothing about it for far too long. It's just one example of how he treated anything beyond MBB and FB, which were run by great coaches he inherited.

Banks2Mason wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Yeah the whole savior Dantonio was trying to save this kid is a load of shit and a total rcmb fanboy narrative. This wasn’t a “second chance” this was a repeated offender being allowed on campus because he could play football. College athletics (and higher ed) can be a dirty dirty business. It’s not surprising that the leadership of these aspects will be dirty or a little dirty as well. MSU is not an outlier or special case if you will.

the "second chance" thing may have been his motivation but it's becoming more and more clear that such a second chance shouldn't have been extended to robertson (and not just with the benefit of hindsight). i mean, jayru did way less than that and got sent packing when he was like 16.

Jayru was in the paper constantly. I mean headlines. From the fight in a handshake line, to his fight with security guard and trouble with his girl friend. Every story was in the Free Press and on the news. I don't follow recruiting but the first time I heard of Robertson was when he "might" still be coming to MSU. I'm not here saying that was right or wrong to choose him to come to MSU and shun Jayru, but I can see him shying away when that many news stories were prominent in the paper and on t.v.

Jayru was in the paper constantly. I mean headlines. From the fight in a handshake line, to his fight with security guard and trouble with his girl friend. Every story was in the Free Press and on the news. I don't follow recruiting but the first time I heard of Robertson was when he "might" still be coming to MSU. I'm not here saying that was right or wrong to choose him to come to MSU and shun Jayru, but I can see him shying away when that many news stories were prominent in the paper and on t.v.

No, I get it. Jayru was a high-profile athlete at the highest profile position in the biggest city in the state. And, given MSU's trajectory at the time, he was going to be the "next guy" at a Top 10 national program. It's also kind of easy to say now since as far as I know, he got his shit together and had a great career at Ferris.

Don't know if Robertson got that kind of press where he was from (or would have in MI either)

NigelUno wrote:

DWags wrote:

Honestly, there is a real sense of entitlement by old guard people still hanging around. If you ever go up there you know it's so. You see the old names and old faces and they have the good seats and they are still allowed to throw the cheer team off a plane because they need their cousins husband and his family to have a seat to get to Minnesota for the final four. It's almost a royalty system. Stanley can do something about this.

Make all coaches know they aren't owners of the programs, they are stewards of them. Keep them in good shape, and pass them on to the next guy. Let donors know we appreciate their patronage, but if they expect more from their generosity, we'll have to look elsewhere. That, I know is pie in the sky, but it probably has to be done at MSU.

Good Ole Boys Club. It permeates the Athletic Department, BOT to some extent, Administration, everything.

Yep. I told you who I was with at the game last Thursday. While it's always interesting to listen to those guys, they do have an aura of arrogance to them and expect people at games to come up to them and talk. The group I was with insisted on taking not one but two laps around the concourse before going to their seats. In a group. Really kind of weird, but now that I think about it, I believe they wanted to be seen. Anyway, that stuff is probably like that at many universities, but it really needs to be stopped.

Banks2Mason wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Anastos was a bad hire.
Cole was a good hire.

Had no idea that would upset you so much.

I'm not one of those lunatic RCMB goofs that talk about legacies.  

You brought up hockey.  I agreed Anastos was a bad hire.  You (for some reason) had a really difficult time saying Cole was a good hire.  

Why is it not OK to discuss that?  It really offends you that much?

Am I still waiting for you to provide examples of me sticking up for an ex-President? Or is that just something you made up?

Cole appears to be a good hire but crowning him already is ridiculous and I suspect you know it.

Anastos was worse than a bad hire. It was idiotic at the time and Hollis did nothing about it for far too long. It's just one example of how he treated anything beyond MBB and FB, which were run by great coaches he inherited.

Crowning him?

Must everything be hyperbole with you? In addition to making shit up?

He was a good hire. That's what I said. You agreed.

WTF?

DWags wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Good Ole Boys Club. It permeates the Athletic Department, BOT to some extent, Administration, everything.

Yep. I told you who I was with at the game last Thursday. While it's always interesting to listen to those guys, they do have an aura of arrogance to them and expect people at games to come up to them and talk. The group I was with insisted on taking not one but two laps around the concourse before going to their seats. In a group. Really kind of weird, but now that I think about it, I believe they wanted to be seen. Anyway, that stuff is probably like that at many universities, but it really needs to be stopped.

Maybe they were just walking off their burgers and fries.

NigelUno wrote:

DWags wrote:

Yep. I told you who I was with at the game last Thursday. While it's always interesting to listen to those guys, they do have an aura of arrogance to them and expect people at games to come up to them and talk. The group I was with insisted on taking not one but two laps around the concourse before going to their seats. In a group. Really kind of weird, but now that I think about it, I believe they wanted to be seen. Anyway, that stuff is probably like that at many universities, but it really needs to be stopped.

Maybe they were just walking off their burgers and fries.

LOL, you'd think. But in self reflection, I think maybe a bit of both.

DWags wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Maybe they were just walking off their burgers and fries.

LOL, you'd think. But in self reflection, I think maybe a bit of both.

do guys that famous know the secret password to get a hot chocolate that isn't either (1) ice cold or (2) one million degrees? cuz i'd like to know that.

Banks2Mason wrote:

DWags wrote:

LOL, you'd think. But in self reflection, I think maybe a bit of both.

do guys that famous know the secret password to get a hot chocolate that isn't either (1) ice cold or (2) one million degrees? cuz i'd like to know that.

Hollis never cared about hot chocolate! It's why we're still in this mess today.

Banks2Mason wrote:

DWags wrote:

LOL, you'd think. But in self reflection, I think maybe a bit of both.

do guys that famous know the secret password to get a hot chocolate that isn't either (1) ice cold or (2) one million degrees? cuz i'd like to know that.

I wish I knew.

DWags wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Good Ole Boys Club. It permeates the Athletic Department, BOT to some extent, Administration, everything.

Yep. I told you who I was with at the game last Thursday. While it's always interesting to listen to those guys, they do have an aura of arrogance to them and expect people at games to come up to them and talk. The group I was with insisted on taking not one but two laps around the concourse before going to their seats. In a group. Really kind of weird, but now that I think about it, I believe they wanted to be seen. Anyway, that stuff is probably like that at many universities, but it really needs to be stopped.

Jesus Christ. That is cringeworthy. I assume you’re not going to name names?