Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates

by **Trapper Gus** Tue 4 Jan 2022 - 8:49

Did a search and didn't find a thread for electric vehicles, so if there is one point it out.

Today's news - Mercedes has an electric vehicle development prototype with more range than most other vehicles on one "fueling", 620 miles per charge.

https://www.axios.com/mercedes-long-range-ev-concept-bd565697-4444-4198-a1b3-270fac84498f.html

by RQA Tue 4 Jan 2022 - 8:54

Where can I buy one?

by **NigelUno** Tue 4 Jan 2022 - 9:07

RQA wrote:Where can I buy one?

In the future, McFly.

by **Trapper Gus** Tue 4 Jan 2022 - 9:08

RQA wrote:Where can I buy one?

Prototype means you can't, not yet anyway.

However, this one is available - Lucid Motor's 520-mile range luxury Air sedan that began reaching customers a few months ago.

by RQA Tue 4 Jan 2022 - 9:19

Trapper Gus wrote:
RQA wrote:Where can I buy one?

Prototype means you can't, not yet anyway.

I have a prototype EV that has a 1000 mile range.

by **Trapper Gus** Tue 4 Jan 2022 - 9:23

RQA wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Prototype means you can't, not yet anyway.

I have a prototype EV that has a 1000 mile range.

Really, tell us more about it. Are you using it to develop the technology for production vehicles like Mercedes is?

by **NigelUno** Tue 4 Jan 2022 - 9:53

RQA wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Prototype means you can't, not yet anyway.

I have a prototype EV that has a 1000 mile range.

Back From the Future already?

by Bredo Morstoel Tue 4 Jan 2022 - 11:13

RQA wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Prototype means you can't, not yet anyway.

I have a prototype EV that has a 1000 mile range.

It takes 34 days to fully charge, but it's SWEET and so much fun to drive, ammirite?

by **Trapper Gus** Tue 4 Jan 2022 - 11:41

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
RQA wrote:

I have a prototype EV that has a 1000 mile range.

It takes 34 days to fully charge, but it's SWEET and so much fun to drive, ammirite?

Is 5 minutes fast enough?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/19/electric-car-batteries-race-ahead-with-five-minute-charging-times

by Bredo Morstoel Tue 4 Jan 2022 - 16:27

Trapper Gus wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

It takes 34 days to fully charge, but it's SWEET and so much fun to drive, ammirite?

Is 5 minutes fast enough?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/19/electric-car-batteries-race-ahead-with-five-minute-charging-times

From the article:

The batteries can be fully charged in five minutes but this would require much higher-powered chargers than used today. Using available charging infrastructure, StoreDot is aiming to deliver 100 miles of charge to a car battery in five minutes in 2025.

So uh... yeah, some day they'll get there, but not for a while.

by PennSpartan Tue 4 Jan 2022 - 16:31

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Is 5 minutes fast enough?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/19/electric-car-batteries-race-ahead-with-five-minute-charging-times

From the article:

The batteries can be fully charged in five minutes but this would require much higher-powered chargers than used today. Using available charging infrastructure, StoreDot is aiming to deliver 100 miles of charge to a car battery in five minutes in 2025.

So uh... yeah, some day they'll get there, but not for a while.

If only you could charge it in your garage overnight. Maybe someday, right?

by Bredo Morstoel Tue 4 Jan 2022 - 16:55

PennSpartan wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

From the article:

The batteries can be fully charged in five minutes but this would require much higher-powered chargers than used today. Using available charging infrastructure, StoreDot is aiming to deliver 100 miles of charge to a car battery in five minutes in 2025.

So uh... yeah, some day they'll get there, but not for a while.
If only you could charge it in your garage overnight. Maybe someday, right?

Yeah, if all you need is a commuter to go from Point A to Point A, it sounds perfect.

Some of us actually do other things with our vehicles besides go to work and back.

by PennSpartan Tue 4 Jan 2022 - 18:28

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
PennSpartan wrote:
If only you could charge it in your garage overnight. Maybe someday, right?

Yeah, if all you need is a commuter to go from Point A to Point A, it sounds perfect.

Some of us actually do other things with our vehicles besides go to work and back.

Like what? Masturbate? You can do that in an EV.

by AvgMSUJoe Tue 4 Jan 2022 - 19:57

Never understood why they couldn't have a lawnmower motor generating electricity in the electric car to charge it when needed.

by Bredo Morstoel Tue 4 Jan 2022 - 21:43

PennSpartan wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Yeah, if all you need is a commuter to go from Point A to Point A, it sounds perfect.

Some of us actually do other things with our vehicles besides go to work and back.
Like what? Masturbate? You can do that in an EV.

No, but gosh, that's a great idea to kill time while you wait 45-60 minutes to charge your vehicle another 100 miles.

Wagon trains crossed the continent quicker than EVs will.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 7:36

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
PennSpartan wrote:
Like what? Masturbate? You can do that in an EV.

No, but gosh, that's a great idea to kill time while you wait 45-60 minutes to charge your vehicle another 100 miles.

Wagon trains crossed the continent quicker than EVs will.

Right now, depending on the power of the charger, charging takes anywhere from 13 hours to 40 minutes from dead battery to 100%. Of course, most of the time the battery isn't dead and 100% isn't required.

The battery technology & charger technology exists which can cut that down to 5 minutes. Car companies are planning to have the battery tech in vehicles in 3 years. The charger tech to support the 5 minutes will be deployed in a similar time frame, as the battery tech is in place that can use it.

It took months to years for a wagon to cross the country, you are way off base on that one.

by **Jake from State Farm** Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 7:48

Tesla Model S Goes 752 Miles with a Prototype Battery from a Michigan Startup

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 8:37

ONE's drive took place in mid-December in Michigan—with chilly winter temperatures working against range maximization—where the company drove up and down the length of the mitten state for nearly 14 hours, averaging 55 mph, before winding up back at its Novi headquarters in southeastern Michigan with the trip odometer showing 752.2 miles.

by Bredo Morstoel Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 9:11

Trapper Gus wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

No, but gosh, that's a great idea to kill time while you wait 45-60 minutes to charge your vehicle another 100 miles.

Wagon trains crossed the continent quicker than EVs will.

The charger tech to support the 5 minutes will be deployed in a similar time frame, as the battery tech is in place that can use it.

It took months to years for a wagon to cross the country, you are way off base on that one.

You really believe that, don't you? The first gasoline station opened in 1905. You think we're just magically going to have ubiquitous hi-po charging stations on every corner in 3-5 years?

Also, I forgot that you're simple enough to actually need a /s in order to understand hyperbole. My apologies for the wagon train joke.

by RQA Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 9:50

PennSpartan wrote:]
If only you could charge it in your garage overnight. Maybe someday, right?

The problem is not that EVs can charge overnight. The problem is how do you get from Michigan to Connecticut which should be a days drive.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 10:29

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

The charger tech to support the 5 minutes will be deployed in a similar time frame, as the battery tech is in place that can use it.

It took months to years for a wagon to cross the country, you are way off base on that one.

You really believe that, don't you? The first gasoline station opened in 1905. You think we're just magically going to have ubiquitous hi-po charging stations on every corner in 3-5 years?

Also, I forgot that you're simple enough to actually need a /s in order to understand hyperbole. My apologies for the wagon train joke.

okay ...

For the switch to electric power trains, which has been ongoing now for about 20 years, there are market fragmentations which are not insignificant, and there are major differences in "refueling" requirements which are also not insignificant.

To your skepticism regarding the availability of charging station, the differences between fueling using electricity verses petrochemicals is a huge advantage for electric refueling.

To operate petrochemical refueling all sorts of very expensive investments are required, such as tanks, pumps, fire suppression, & chemical spill control. It also requires a fleet of highly specialized fuel transport vehicles to service the refueling stations, plus of course a whole industry to make the fuel which is extremely complicated and expensive.

Electric refueling, on the other hand, is much simpler. There is at least an order on magnitude of simplification between a charging station and a gas station. A charging station requires an adequate source of electric power, a charger and the place to park the vehicle being charged. When refueling is in the 5-minute range the parking requirements will lessen. While the business model may be for existing gas stations to add chargers, they will be at a capital investment disadvantage to almost anyone with a parking lot. The point being that the cost of entering the market as a business is so low that it will be the "wild west" until it settles down, but a cheap business to start up.

The limiting factors will be the development of electric vehicles, the standardization of charger to vehicle plug-ins, which will in the US eventually be the same as Europe, who have already standardized, and the availability of enough charging stations to provide enough to allow charging in a reasonable distance from any location.

For the commuter this could be home charging every night. Even a 110V / 20Amp circuit will charge a car battery when plugged in for 8 to 12 hours. For longer trips some sort of business which provides high-rate charging will be needed. The need for high-rate charging is driven by the development and marketing of elective vehicles which can use it. In this "chicken or egg" situation the controlling factor is the development of the vehicles. The development of the charging stations and enough of them is the much simpler situation.

I am very clear that I treat everything that someone posts as a serious comment unless the "/s" is used. The reason is simple. In the one upmanship which occurs on message boards, and you are exemplifying that (IMO) with these posts, the response to "/s" posts can be a no-win situation. If one assumes it is "/s" then the other poster can claim it wasn't, if one assumes it is not "/s" the other poster claims it was. In the interest of clear understanding of how I will respond I try to make it clear than unless the "/s" is used I will treat it as though it isn't a "/s" post. I could claim that my response to your "wagon train" comment was just as "/s" as you are claiming for the comment itself, but I won't, since I didn't make it as "/s" /s

edit - In 1905 there were no cars that had a range that modern cars do on one tank of fuel, no highways to drive on, and the demand for both was very low. Driving coast to coast was a real adventure which only people who were trying to sell cars, Packard did it for instance, would attempt and in many places on that trip they were not driving on roads, or even trails, at all.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 10:30

RQA wrote:
PennSpartan wrote:]
If only you could charge it in your garage overnight. Maybe someday, right?

The problem is not that EVs can charge overnight. The problem is how do you get from Michigan to Connecticut which should be a days drive.

Create a vehicle which charges in 5 minutes and the rest will fall in place.

by Bredo Morstoel Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 15:48

Trapper Gus wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

You really believe that, don't you? The first gasoline station opened in 1905. You think we're just magically going to have ubiquitous hi-po charging stations on every corner in 3-5 years?

Also, I forgot that you're simple enough to actually need a /s in order to understand hyperbole. My apologies for the wagon train joke.

okay ...

For the switch to electric power trains, which has been ongoing now for about 20 years, there are market fragmentations which are not insignificant, and there are major differences in "refueling" requirements which are also not insignificant.

To your skepticism regarding the availability of charging station, the differences between fueling using electricity verses petrochemicals is a huge advantage for electric refueling.

To operate petrochemical refueling all sorts of very expensive investments are required, such as tanks, pumps, fire suppression, & chemical spill control. It also requires a fleet of highly specialized fuel transport vehicles to service the refueling stations, plus of course a whole industry to make the fuel which is extremely complicated and expensive.

Electric refueling, on the other hand, is much simpler. There is at least an order on magnitude of simplification between a charging station and a gas station. A charging station requires an adequate source of electric power, a charger and the place to park the vehicle being charged. When refueling is in the 5-minute range the parking requirements will lessen. While the business model may be for existing gas stations to add chargers, they will be at a capital investment disadvantage to almost anyone with a parking lot. The point being that the cost of entering the market as a business is so low that it will be the "wild west" until it settles down, but a cheap business to start up.

The limiting factors will be the development of electric vehicles, the standardization of charger to vehicle plug-ins, which will in the US eventually be the same as Europe, who have already standardized, and the availability of enough charging stations to provide enough to allow charging in a reasonable distance from any location.

For the commuter this could be home charging every night. Even a 110V / 20Amp circuit will charge a car battery when plugged in for 8 to 12 hours. For longer trips some sort of business which provides high-rate charging will be needed. The need for high-rate charging is driven by the development and marketing of elective vehicles which can use it. In this "chicken or egg" situation the controlling factor is the development of the vehicles. The development of the charging stations and enough of them is the much simpler situation.

I am very clear that I treat everything that someone posts as a serious comment unless the "/s" is used. The reason is simple. In the one upmanship which occurs on message boards, and you are exemplifying that (IMO) with these posts, the response to "/s" posts can be a no-win situation. If one assumes it is "/s" then the other poster can claim it wasn't, if one assumes it is not "/s" the other poster claims it was. In the interest of clear understanding of how I will respond I try to make it clear than unless the "/s" is used I will treat it as though it isn't a "/s" post. I could claim that my response to your "wagon train" comment was just as "/s" as you are claiming for the comment itself, but I won't, since I didn't make it as "/s" /s

edit - In 1905 there were no cars that had a range that modern cars do on one tank of fuel, no highways to drive on, and the demand for both was very low. Driving coast to coast was a real adventure which only people who were trying to sell cars, Packard did it for instance, would attempt and in many places on that trip they were not driving on roads, or even trails, at all.

Yes, electric charging stations have all the advantages... except for the 117 year head start that gas stations have.

You can claim it's easy, but it's going to take time. It's like the old country song goes: "It won't take too long, it'll just take money." We are 10-15 years out from EVs being anything other than rich people toys - and that's the best case. Given how Biden's infrastructure bills seem to be going, I'm not holding my breath on that one, either.

by **DWags** Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 16:48

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

The charger tech to support the 5 minutes will be deployed in a similar time frame, as the battery tech is in place that can use it.

It took months to years for a wagon to cross the country, you are way off base on that one.

You really believe that, don't you? The first gasoline station opened in 1905. You think we're just magically going to have ubiquitous hi-po charging stations on every corner in 3-5 years?

Also, I forgot that you're simple enough to actually need a /s in order to understand hyperbole. My apologies for the wagon train joke.

Think Tesla and Edison cared Rocketfeller had all the oil and kerosene contracts in cities so they stopped?

by Bredo Morstoel Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 18:43

DWags wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

You really believe that, don't you? The first gasoline station opened in 1905. You think we're just magically going to have ubiquitous hi-po charging stations on every corner in 3-5 years?

Also, I forgot that you're simple enough to actually need a /s in order to understand hyperbole. My apologies for the wagon train joke.

Think Tesla and Edison cared Rocketfeller had all the oil and kerosene contracts in cities so they stopped?

Who is suggesting that they stop the rollout of electric infrastructure? They should proceed ahead full steam. Then it will only take 10-15 years for this stuff to take root.

by **GRR Spartan** Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 18:49

Hyundai is going all in on EV

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/01/hyundai-stops-engine-development-and-reassigns-engineers-to-evs/

by **DWags** Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 19:39

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
DWags wrote:

Think Tesla and Edison cared Rocketfeller had all the oil and kerosene contracts in cities so they stopped?

Who is suggesting that they stop the rollout of electric infrastructure? They should proceed ahead full steam. Then it will only take 10-15 years for this stuff to take root.

Oh, they will. You cant stop it. Rockefeller also tried.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 20:14

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
DWags wrote:

Think Tesla and Edison cared Rocketfeller had all the oil and kerosene contracts in cities so they stopped?

Who is suggesting that they stop the rollout of electric infrastructure? They should proceed ahead full steam. Then it will only take 10-15 years for this stuff to take root.

It is taking root.

Tesla sold almost 1 million vehicles in a market that sold abt 13 million vehicles in 2021.

With the average turn over in vehicles at 11 years it will be a while before electrics out number ICE's, but the writings on the wall.

by RQA Thu 6 Jan 2022 - 8:46

Jake from State Farm wrote:Tesla Model S Goes 752 Miles with a Prototype Battery from a Michigan Startup

To achieve this they had to drive 55mph. Imagine driving up I75 at 55mph.

Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates 2803167989

by **NigelUno** Thu 6 Jan 2022 - 8:52

RQA wrote:
Jake from State Farm wrote:Tesla Model S Goes 752 Miles with a Prototype Battery from a Michigan Startup

To achieve this they had to drive 55mph. Imagine driving up I75 at 55mph.

Did you know you get better gas mileage if you drive slower?

Do many people therefore drive slower?

by Bredo Morstoel Thu 6 Jan 2022 - 9:10

DWags wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Who is suggesting that they stop the rollout of electric infrastructure? They should proceed ahead full steam. Then it will only take 10-15 years for this stuff to take root.

Oh, they will. You cant stop it. Rockefeller also tried.

Who wants to stop it? I just want the premature fan bois to STFU about it. Personally, I'd love an electric vehicle that has the same range and time to recharge/refuel as my current vehicle. If I could get that, I'd be all in. Hell, I'd even pay the ridiculous premium that EVs currently command.

by **DWags** Thu 6 Jan 2022 - 9:27

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
DWags wrote:

Oh, they will. You cant stop it. Rockefeller also tried.

Who wants to stop it? I just want the premature fan bois to STFU about it. Personally, I'd love an electric vehicle that has the same range and time to recharge/refuel as my current vehicle. If I could get that, I'd be all in. Hell, I'd even pay the ridiculous premium that EVs currently command.

Its coming. You’re like the little kids at McDonald’s waiting for the happy meal. Just relax. Its coming. Fossil fuels and the idiots who will do anything to preserve them will be gone.

Patients. Relax. Quit screaming. Its coming. You cant stop it.

by **Trapper Gus** Thu 6 Jan 2022 - 9:38

I started this thread since there was no other on this topic I could find and mainly to highlight those advances in battery technology are continuing.

Since I began to follow developments in BEVs the range has increased from around 40 miles (Chevy Volt) to over 200 miles for production vehicles. Costs for the batteries have also dropped significantly, and different technology batteries show potential for significant cost drops in the future.

The major remaining road bock is recharging time. A 5-minute recharge solves that, as does a battery with significantly higher range, a range which no one would typically use, such as above 1000 miles.

by Bredo Morstoel Thu 6 Jan 2022 - 9:52

DWags wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Who wants to stop it? I just want the premature fan bois to STFU about it. Personally, I'd love an electric vehicle that has the same range and time to recharge/refuel as my current vehicle. If I could get that, I'd be all in. Hell, I'd even pay the ridiculous premium that EVs currently command.

Its coming. You’re like the little kids at McDonald’s waiting for the happy meal. Just relax. Its coming. Fossil fuels and the idiots who will do anything to preserve them will be gone.

Patients. Relax. Quit screaming. Its coming. You cant stop it.

And some of you opened your Happy Meal, got a rock, and are now telling other kids that it's the greatest toy ever invented.

by Bredo Morstoel Thu 6 Jan 2022 - 9:58

Trapper Gus wrote:I started this thread since there was no other on this topic I could find and mainly to highlight those advances in battery technology are continuing.

Since I began to follow developments in BEVs the range has increased from around 40 miles (Chevy Volt) to over 200 miles for production vehicles. Costs for the batteries have also dropped significantly, and different technology batteries show potential for significant cost drops in the future.

The major remaining road bock is recharging time. A 5-minute recharge solves that, as does a battery with significantly higher range, a range which no one would typically use, such as above 1000 miles.

Agreed. Get the same range as a decent IC SUV (400-500 miles), and get recharging time to under 5 minutes - for FULLY charged - not some 100 mile BS - and then you'll have a product to talk about.

by **kingstonlake** Thu 6 Jan 2022 - 10:00

RQA wrote:
Jake from State Farm wrote:Tesla Model S Goes 752 Miles with a Prototype Battery from a Michigan Startup

To achieve this they had to drive 55mph. Imagine driving up I75 at 55mph.

At what average speed do you think they calculate highway mpg, dipshit.

Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates 6810f510

by PennSpartan Thu 6 Jan 2022 - 10:15

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:I started this thread since there was no other on this topic I could find and mainly to highlight those advances in battery technology are continuing.

Since I began to follow developments in BEVs the range has increased from around 40 miles (Chevy Volt) to over 200 miles for production vehicles. Costs for the batteries have also dropped significantly, and different technology batteries show potential for significant cost drops in the future.

The major remaining road bock is recharging time. A 5-minute recharge solves that, as does a battery with significantly higher range, a range which no one would typically use, such as above 1000 miles.

Agreed. Get the same range as a decent IC SUV (400-500 miles), and get recharging time to under 5 minutes - for FULLY charged - not some 100 mile BS - and then you'll have a product to talk about.

Let me guess. Your great grandfather argued against cars replacing horses 120 years ago because gasoline was more scary than hay.

by **Trapper Gus** Thu 6 Jan 2022 - 10:43

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:I started this thread since there was no other on this topic I could find and mainly to highlight those advances in battery technology are continuing.

Since I began to follow developments in BEVs the range has increased from around 40 miles (Chevy Volt) to over 200 miles for production vehicles. Costs for the batteries have also dropped significantly, and different technology batteries show potential for significant cost drops in the future.

The major remaining road bock is recharging time. A 5-minute recharge solves that, as does a battery with significantly higher range, a range which no one would typically use, such as above 1000 miles.

Agreed. Get the same range as a decent IC SUV (400-500 miles), and get recharging time to under 5 minutes - for FULLY charged - not some 100 mile BS - and then you'll have a product to talk about.

Interesting question, how long does it take to put 25 to 35 gallons of fuel in a vehicle tank. I'm thinking the 5 minutes should be extended to 10.

by **GRR Spartan** Thu 6 Jan 2022 - 11:10

My sibling in NoCal leased a Chevy Bolt that fortunately had batteries that don’t need to be replaced. It’s a grocery getter, take their HS age son to school. (He’s 15 with no interest in driving when he’s 16.) gas is $4.30-$5.00 per gallon so one EV makes a lot of sense. They have roof solar and charge at home.

The biggest opponents of EV’s on the consumer side are folks who live in the hinterlands and those with vested interests working for Tier1/Tier2 suppliers who are going to see their engineering and manufacturing orders vaporize.

In a decade finding gasoline will be an issue and as demand drops the prices will climb. US won’t need as many refineries as consumer fuel drops. The ones that are left will be producing a lot more diesel and jet fuel than 87 octane gasoline.

Similar to the same BS about large generators powered by wind. They freeze unless a minimal cost heater is installed when ordered or as an aftermarket item. Then, as seen in OK, MN, WI they don’t freeze like they did in Texas where the utilities opted to go cheap and not spend money for the heaters because it hardly ever freezes except when it does.

by RQA Thu 6 Jan 2022 - 11:19

kingstonlake wrote:
RQA wrote:

To achieve this they had to drive 55mph. Imagine driving up I75 at 55mph.

At what average speed do you think they calculate highway mpg, dipshit.

They didn't do a replica of the EPA test.

Oh, and your battery is down to 4% Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates 502811600

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