Re: Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates

by **GRR Spartan** 2022-01-06, 11:21

Jesus effin’Christ RQA, Keep talking out of your ass troll boy.

You don’t own an EV. Getting your numbers from Breitbart?

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-01-06, 11:22

GRR Spartan wrote:My sibling in NoCal leased a Chevy Bolt that fortunately had batteries that don’t need to be replaced.

The biggest opponents of EV’s on the consumer side are folks who live in the hinterlands and those with vested interests working for Tier1/Tier2 suppliers who are going to see their engineering and manufacturing orders vaporize.

Similar to the same BS about large generators powered by wind. They freeze unless a minimal cost heater is installed when ordered or as an aftermarket item. Then, as seen in OK, MN, WI they don’t freeze like they did in Texas where the utilities opted to go cheap and not spend money for the heaters because it hardly ever freezes scepter when it does.

Unsure about how much of the powertrain components are at outside suppliers. The electric power train components may be more at suppliers than the ICE components were.

Fore sure that the average user is paying for way more capacity in terms of range then they use daily with ICE vehicles, though not all. The complaints about range I hear on here are all about longer trips. Michigan is not totally unique, however the "up north" on the weekends culture is limited to a smallish number of places in the country.

FWIW the wind generators themselves don't freeze. The blades ice up which greatly reduces their wind to rotation efficiency and creates potential hazards of ice flying off the blades.

by **GRR Spartan** 2022-01-06, 11:30

Gus,

Except for collision damage there is a helluva a lot fewer moving parts in EV drive trains.

There are also a helluva lot less widgets. Everything from hoses, fuel lines, fuel, oil and water pumps, radiators, fuel injector parts and so on.

Take a look under the hood of any gas or diesel powered vehicle. The number of “widgets” is astounding.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-01-06, 11:39

GRR Spartan wrote:Gus,

Except for collision damage there is a helluva a lot fewer moving parts in EV drive trains.

There are also a helluva lot less widgets. Everything from hoses, fuel lines, fuel, oil and water pumps, radiators, fuel injector parts and so on.

Take a look under the hood of any gas or diesel powered vehicle. The number of “widgets” is astounding.

Okay, forgot about all the bolt on stuff.

Still current technology EV drivetrains still use liquid cooling, 12-volt alternators, or the equivalent power converter and other bolt on tech which is not going away.

The actual motivating component, the electric motor verses the ICE is the one place where the ICE would seem to have more moving parts, however, modern power train electric moters have a significant number of electronic control components.

by Bredo Morstoel 2022-01-06, 11:43

PennSpartan wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Agreed. Get the same range as a decent IC SUV (400-500 miles), and get recharging time to under 5 minutes - for FULLY charged - not some 100 mile BS - and then you'll have a product to talk about.
Let me guess. Your great grandfather argued against cars replacing horses 120 years ago because gasoline was more scary than hay.

No. He argued for cars over horses because cars were clearly better.

That isn't the case yet with EVs vs. ICs.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-01-06, 11:50

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
PennSpartan wrote:Let me guess. Your great grandfather argued against cars replacing horses 120 years ago because gasoline was more scary than hay.

No. He argued for cars over horses because cars were clearly better.

That isn't the case yet with EVs vs. ICs.

In 1905 it was a very clear question which was better, and most people stuck with horses, and trains.

by Bredo Morstoel 2022-01-06, 11:57

Trapper Gus wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

No. He argued for cars over horses because cars were clearly better.

That isn't the case yet with EVs vs. ICs.

In 1905 it was a very clear question which was better, and most people stuck with horses, and trains.

It's like you don't want people to take you seriously....

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-01-06, 12:17

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

In 1905 it was a very clear question which was better, and most people stuck with horses, and trains.

It's like you don't want people to take you seriously.....

You forgot the "/s". /s

You clearly don't know the history of the automobile.

If you had used 1925 you would have been correct.

by PennSpartan 2022-01-06, 16:40

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
PennSpartan wrote:Let me guess. Your great grandfather argued against cars replacing horses 120 years ago because gasoline was more scary than hay.

No. He argued for cars over horses because cars were clearly better.

That isn't the case yet with EVs vs. ICs.

Like it or not, the next generations will be driving EV’s.

by Bredo Morstoel 2022-01-06, 17:24

PennSpartan wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

No. He argued for cars over horses because cars were clearly better.

That isn't the case yet with EVs vs. ICs.
Like it or not, the next generations will be driving EV’s.

Cool?

Hey, it'll be good for the environment, and that's a fantastic thing.

by **DWags** 2022-01-06, 17:59

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
DWags wrote:

Its coming. You’re like the little kids at McDonald’s waiting for the happy meal. Just relax. Its coming. Fossil fuels and the idiots who will do anything to preserve them will be gone.

Patients. Relax. Quit screaming. Its coming. You cant stop it.

And some of you opened your Happy Meal, got a rock, and are now telling other kids that it's the greatest toy ever invented.

Its coming. Relax. Stop screaming.

by Bredo Morstoel 2022-01-07, 08:35

DWags wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

And some of you opened your Happy Meal, got a rock, and are now telling other kids that it's the greatest toy ever invented.

Its coming. Relax. Stop screaming.

LOL. I think you're projecting your feelings on to others.

by **DWags** 2022-01-07, 14:12

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
DWags wrote:

Its coming. Relax. Stop screaming.

LOL. I think you're projecting your feelings on to others.

Says angry middle age white guy.

by AvgMSUJoe 2022-01-07, 14:25

SERIOUSLY.... how long would it take for one of these to charge a car?

Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 2 ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.currentgeneration.co.nz%2Fuploads%2F1%2F1%2F7%2F9%2F117910720%2Fs594081923618717867_p193_i6_w1596

Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 2 ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.currentgeneration.co.nz%2Fuploads%2F1%2F1%2F7%2F9%2F117910720%2Fs594081923618717867_p193_i6_w1596

by Bredo Morstoel 2022-01-07, 14:28

DWags wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

LOL. I think you're projecting your feelings on to others.

Says angry middle age white guy.

Why would I be angry?

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-01-08, 18:13

https://time.com/6133180/norway-electric-vehicles/#:~:text=Electric%20vehicles%20%28EV%29%20sit%20parked%20at%20charging%20stations,in%20Oslo%2C%20Norway%2C%20on%20Monday%2C%20Nov.%2021%2C%202016.

by Bredo Morstoel 2022-01-09, 09:18

Trapper Gus wrote:https://time.com/6133180/norway-electric-vehicles/#:~:text=Electric%20vehicles%20%28EV%29%20sit%20parked%20at%20charging%20stations,in%20Oslo%2C%20Norway%2C%20on%20Monday%2C%20Nov.%2021%2C%202016.

Norway is 4/5 the size of the state of California.

Pretty easy problem to solve when you don't have much in sq. miles to cover.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-01-09, 09:23

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:https://time.com/6133180/norway-electric-vehicles/#:~:text=Electric%20vehicles%20%28EV%29%20sit%20parked%20at%20charging%20stations,in%20Oslo%2C%20Norway%2C%20on%20Monday%2C%20Nov.%2021%2C%202016.

Norway is 4/5 the size of the state of California.

Pretty easy problem to solve when you don't have much in sq. miles to cover.

How many people regularly travel a further distance than that, by car, in the US. If I am driving longer than about 5 hours, I will fly.

by Bredo Morstoel 2022-01-09, 14:29

Trapper Gus wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Norway is 4/5 the size of the state of California.

Pretty easy problem to solve when you don't have much in sq. miles to cover.

How many people regularly travel a further distance than that, by car, in the US. If I am driving longer than about 5 hours, I will fly.

Um... lots of people? People who can't afford to fly? People with pets? People who like to travel to multiple destinations along the route? People who travel to remote locations not served by major airports? People who are afraid to fly? People who are taking more than a single piece of luggage worth of stuff with them? People who just prefer to drive?

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-01-09, 15:34

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

How many people regularly travel a further distance than that, by car, in the US. If I am driving longer than about 5 hours, I will fly.

Um... lots of people? People who can't afford to fly? People with pets? People who like to travel to multiple destinations along the route? People who travel to remote locations not served by major airports? People who are afraid to fly? People who are taking more than a single piece of luggage worth of stuff with them? People who just prefer to drive?

On a daily basis, the average person traveled 40 miles, most of it (35 miles) in a personal vehicle. Because more than one person can travel in a personal vehicle, these 35 person miles amounted to about 23 vehicle miles traveled.

https://www.bts.gov/archive/publications/highlights_of_the_2001_national_household_travel_survey/section_02#:~:text=On%20a%20daily%20basis%2C%20the%20average%20person%20traveled,miles%20amounted%20to%20about%2023%20vehicle%20miles%20traveled.

by Bredo Morstoel 2022-01-09, 15:59

Trapper Gus wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Um... lots of people? People who can't afford to fly? People with pets? People who like to travel to multiple destinations along the route? People who travel to remote locations not served by major airports? People who are afraid to fly? People who are taking more than a single piece of luggage worth of stuff with them? People who just prefer to drive?

On a daily basis, the average person traveled 40 miles, most of it (35 miles) in a personal vehicle. Because more than one person can travel in a personal vehicle, these 35 person miles amounted to about 23 vehicle miles traveled.

https://www.bts.gov/archive/publications/highlights_of_the_2001_national_household_travel_survey/section_02#:~:text=On%20a%20daily%20basis%2C%20the%20average%20person%20traveled,miles%20amounted%20to%20about%2023%20vehicle%20miles%20traveled.

When confronted with answers they don't like, EV advocates always tell us about "most people."

Just make EVs as good as ICs and stop telling people what you think they "need."

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-01-09, 16:12

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

On a daily basis, the average person traveled 40 miles, most of it (35 miles) in a personal vehicle. Because more than one person can travel in a personal vehicle, these 35 person miles amounted to about 23 vehicle miles traveled.

https://www.bts.gov/archive/publications/highlights_of_the_2001_national_household_travel_survey/section_02#:~:text=On%20a%20daily%20basis%2C%20the%20average%20person%20traveled,miles%20amounted%20to%20about%2023%20vehicle%20miles%20traveled.

When confronted with answers they don't like, EV advocates always tell us about "most people."

Just make EVs as good as ICs and stop telling people what you think they "need."

So, you are allowed to generalize, however when I provide data you attack me, not the data.

Surely you would agree that the average trip can be easily done with a BEV and that the extended range is unneeded.

Furthermore, BEV's range per charge has increased to above 200 miles, so there is margin for the average trip.

by Bredo Morstoel 2022-01-09, 16:15

Trapper Gus wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

When confronted with answers they don't like, EV advocates always tell us about "most people."

Just make EVs as good as ICs and stop telling people what you think they "need."

So, you are allowed to generalize, however when I provide data you attack me, not the data.

Surely you would agree that the average trip can be easily done with a BEV and that the extended range is unneeded.

Furthermore, BEV's range per charge has increased to above 200 miles, so there is margin for the average trip.

And surely you would agree that EVs are probably great for commuting from Point A to Point A, but they don't currently meet the needs of many drivers.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-01-09, 16:20

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

So, you are allowed to generalize, however when I provide data you attack me, not the data.

Surely you would agree that the average trip can be easily done with a BEV and that the extended range is unneeded.

Furthermore, BEV's range per charge has increased to above 200 miles, so there is margin for the average trip.

And surely you would agree that EVs are probably great for commuting from Point A to Point A, but they don't currently meet the needs of many drivers.

As to the number who travel over 200 miles at a time, I need to see data, for which we are woefully short of at this time, which is what you need to defend your point, have at it. The average trip can be done in an EV easily.

by Bredo Morstoel 2022-01-09, 16:22

Trapper Gus wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

And surely you would agree that EVs are probably great for commuting from Point A to Point A, but they don't currently meet the needs of many drivers.

As to the number who travel over 200 miles at a time, I need to see data, for which we are woefully short of at this time, which is what you need to defend your point, have at it. The average trip can be done in an EV easily.

You need to see data in order to believe that anyone travels more than 200 miles via car?

Clearly you are not interested in an honest debate. I concede to your genius. EV's are perfect and clearly have no flaws. Biden should buy one for everybody.

by AvgMSUJoe 2022-01-09, 20:02

Of course it's not perfect now. At least it's a step in the direction. Not sure why pursuing this is offensive to anyone. Like getting pissed about unleaded gas or something.

by Bredo Morstoel 2022-01-09, 20:36

AvgMSUJoe wrote:Of course it's not perfect now. At least it's a step in the direction. Not sure why pursuing this is offensive to anyone. Like getting pissed about unleaded gas or something.

No one is "pissed." I'm ROOTING for EVs. They're just not ready yet.

by Pervis Muldoon 2022-01-09, 23:45

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
AvgMSUJoe wrote:Of course it's not perfect now. At least it's a step in the direction. Not sure why pursuing this is offensive to anyone. Like getting pissed about unleaded gas or something.

No one is "pissed." I'm ROOTING for EVs. They're just not ready yet.

Not ready? They're being built, sold and used. What are they not ready for?

by Bredo Morstoel 2022-01-10, 08:32

Pervis Muldoon wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

No one is "pissed." I'm ROOTING for EVs. They're just not ready yet.

Not ready? They're being built, sold and used. What are they not ready for?

You're not paying attention already? It's only a two page thread at this point. Go back and try again.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-01-10, 08:33

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

As to the number who travel over 200 miles at a time, I need to see data, for which we are woefully short of at this time, which is what you need to defend your point, have at it. The average trip can be done in an EV easily.

You need to see data in order to believe that anyone travels more than 200 miles via car?

Clearly you are not interested in an honest debate. I concede to your genius. EV's are perfect and clearly have no flaws. Biden should buy one for everybody.

I said, "how many?".

If 100% of vehicles are taken on trips in one "sitting" which exceeds their onboard fuel range that is one situation.

If 0% of vehicles are taken on trips in one "sitting" which exceeds their onboard fuel range that is a different situation.

Neither is the case.

In order to have a rational discussion of the situation we need to know what the data says about this.

by Bredo Morstoel 2022-01-10, 08:52

Trapper Gus wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

You need to see data in order to believe that anyone travels more than 200 miles via car?

Clearly you are not interested in an honest debate. I concede to your genius. EV's are perfect and clearly have no flaws. Biden should buy one for everybody.

I said, "how many?".

If 100% of vehicles are taken on trips in one "sitting" which exceeds their onboard fuel range that is one situation.

If 0% of vehicles are taken on trips in one "sitting" which exceeds their onboard fuel range that is a different situation.

Neither is the case.

In order to have a rational discussion of the situation we need to know what the data says about this.

No, WE don't. You might. I don't.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-01-10, 10:20

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

I said, "how many?".

If 100% of vehicles are taken on trips in one "sitting" which exceeds their onboard fuel range that is one situation.

If 0% of vehicles are taken on trips in one "sitting" which exceeds their onboard fuel range that is a different situation.

Neither is the case.

In order to have a rational discussion of the situation we need to know what the data says about this.

No, WE don't. You might. I don't.

Okay, from my POV your arguments lack evidence to support them.

To me they are just "whistling past the graveyard"

I have no idea how many vehicle owners never drive far verses how many that do, and due to my limited exposure to the entire types in the population of vehicle owners, I do not trust my personal driving habits, nor yours, as being typical for the entire population of vehicle owners.

by Bredo Morstoel 2022-01-10, 10:52

Trapper Gus wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

No, WE don't. You might. I don't.

Okay, from my POV your arguments lack evidence to support them.

To me they are just "whistling past the graveyard"

I have no idea how many vehicle owners never drive far verses how many that do, and due to my limited exposure to the entire types in the population of vehicle owners, I do not trust my personal driving habits, nor yours, as being typical for the entire population of vehicle owners.

From my perspective, the prosecution rests. Let the world judge your sound arguments from here.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-01-10, 11:03

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Okay, from my POV your arguments lack evidence to support them.

To me they are just "whistling past the graveyard"

I have no idea how many vehicle owners never drive far verses how many that do, and due to my limited exposure to the entire types in the population of vehicle owners, I do not trust my personal driving habits, nor yours, as being typical for the entire population of vehicle owners.

From my perspective, the prosecution rests. Let the world judge your sound arguments from here.

As we haven't really engaged in any complete discussion there is little to judge, other than we don't have the data.

by **DWags** 2022-01-10, 12:11

Shit's going to happen. I'm 60. Maybe not for me, but you can't stop progress. The knuckle dragging fossil fuel nuts will now use charging stations as another reason to complain about what's coming. But....... it's coming. It won't stop. There willl be a bunch of hiccups on the way. I can't imagine what it must have been like when Tesla and Eddison were converting huge cities from Kerosene to Electric Lights. There were probably fires, and outages like crazy. People must have been crazy with frustration as it was happening. But, here we are. Every city and county is wired.

It's going to be great.

by RQA 2022-01-10, 13:10

DWags wrote:Shit's going to happen. I'm 60. Maybe not for me, but you can't stop progress. The knuckle dragging fossil fuel nuts will now use charging stations as another reason to complain about what's coming. But....... it's coming. It won't stop. There willl be a bunch of hiccups on the way. I can't imagine what it must have been like when Tesla and Eddison were converting huge cities from Kerosene to Electric Lights. There were probably fires, and outages like crazy. People must have been crazy with frustration as it was happening. But, here we are. Every city and county is wired.

It's going to be great.

Electrification of America was a major improvement both economically and quality of life. It allowed for all sorts of improvements in daily life from washing machines to cooling fans to refrigeration.

Switching from gas cars to EVs is not the same seismic shift.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-01-10, 13:22

RQA wrote:
DWags wrote:Shit's going to happen. I'm 60. Maybe not for me, but you can't stop progress. The knuckle dragging fossil fuel nuts will now use charging stations as another reason to complain about what's coming. But....... it's coming. It won't stop. There willl be a bunch of hiccups on the way. I can't imagine what it must have been like when Tesla and Eddison were converting huge cities from Kerosene to Electric Lights. There were probably fires, and outages like crazy. People must have been crazy with frustration as it was happening. But, here we are. Every city and county is wired.

It's going to be great.

Electrification of America was a major improvement both economically and quality of life. It allowed for all sorts of improvements in daily life from washing machines to cooling fans to refrigeration.

Switching from gas cars to EVs is not the same seismic shift.

Economically, when it happens it will be. The oil industry takes a major downsizing.

by Pervis Muldoon 2022-01-10, 13:35

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Pervis Muldoon wrote:

Not ready? They're being built, sold and used. What are they not ready for?

You're not paying attention already? It's only a two page thread at this point. Go back and try again.

So...no answer? Great argument!

by **GRR Spartan** 2022-01-10, 14:44

Bredo Morstoel wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:https://time.com/6133180/norway-electric-vehicles/#:~:text=Electric%20vehicles%20%28EV%29%20sit%20parked%20at%20charging%20stations,in%20Oslo%2C%20Norway%2C%20on%20Monday%2C%20Nov.%2021%2C%202016.

Norway is 4/5 the size of the state of California.

Pretty easy problem to solve when you don't have much in sq. miles to cover.

Great geography lesson but your factoid flies in the face of common sense and lifestyle reality.

A majority of US drivers don’t get a vehicle to drive 300+ miles per day. If you live in San Diego it’s less than 150 miles to LA. However if you live in the Bay Area SF to LA is a bit over 500 miles and unless you are hauling your kid to college you park your EV at SFO or SJO and use an airline to get there.

As of Sept 2021 California has 425,000 EV’s registered. FL is #2 with 58K then TX with 52K EVs.

I understand you are a Luddite but the mills using hand driven looms in England closed over 150 years ago and last I checked those making candles who fought gas lights installed on Paris streets have found other occupations.

by Bredo Morstoel 2022-01-11, 09:30

GRR Spartan wrote:
Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Norway is 4/5 the size of the state of California.

Pretty easy problem to solve when you don't have much in sq. miles to cover.

Great geography lesson but your factoid flies in the face of common sense and lifestyle reality.

A majority of US drivers don’t get a vehicle to drive 300+ miles per day. If you live in San Diego it’s less than 150 miles to LA. However if you live in the Bay Area SF to LA is a bit over 500 miles and unless you are hauling your kid to college you park your EV at SFO or SJO and use an airline to get there.

As of Sept 2021 California has 425,000 EV’s registered. FL is #2 with 58K then TX with 52K EVs.

I understand you are a Luddite but the mills using hand driven looms in England closed over 150 years ago and last I checked those making candles who fought gas lights installed on Paris streets have found other occupations.

Every. Goddamn. Time.

For once, just once, I'd like to hear an EV rebuttal that didn't start with "Well yeah, but MOST drivers..."

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