Mass Shooting - A Patriot Exercising Their Constitutional Right in Brooklyn..

Cameron wrote:

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Would you like to know my opinion?  All you need to do is ask.  

If you need the foreplay of me teasing it out of you before your big reveal, then sure.

What do you think, Bredo? Does America have a gun violence problem?

Yes it does.

Cameron wrote:Agreed.

Still, a curious choice to bend over backwards to give equal time to a point of view held by only a small fringe of people with whom you do not agree. Do you do that often? Must be exhausting.

Actually, yes, I do. Why would I deny that there is a contingent out there that disagrees with such claims? That would be disingenuous on bordering on TrapperGus levels of debate.

Cameron wrote:Are you as considerate of the views of flat earthers? How about people who believe in horoscopes? Those were not the first two examples that came to mind, but I was trying to keep it relatively politically neutral.

I'm not asking you to deny that there is contingent of people out there who don't believe America has a gun violence problem. It just seems weird to me to be all worried about offending them by not paying respect to their views. Like, I would just expect someone who thinks America has a gun violence problem to say "America has a gun violence problem," rather than some weird sentence pretzel like "I recognize that a large percentage of the population believes America has a gun violence problem" or whatever weird shit you exactly said.

But this is very clearly no longer a productive use of either of our time, as you have now clarified your position.

Perhaps I am sensitive to being a good message board participant. I believe when someone makes a claim, without acknowledging other's opinions, they aren't being a good participant. Yes, my opinion is that the Earth is round, but to ignore the fact that there is a portion of the population out there who honestly believe the Earth is flat, is minimizing them as a people. And yes, you used two very safe, vanilla examples. But if I were to claim "The Lord God Almighty created the heavens and Earth, and sent his son to atone for our sins" without acknowledging that there are many people out there who would disagree with that statement.... that doesn't make me a good participant in the conversation, does it? So yes, I try to acknowledge opposing view points in an attempt to promote honest, good, healthy discussion. That's something that I feel, unfortunately, is missing in many forums such as this board. So I try to be respectful of other's opinions no matter how much I disagree with them, or how bat shit crazy they may be. :)

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

‘Hey guys. Don’t drive from Michigan to Maine!’
- Why not?
‘Google it!’

Not interested in answering my questions? Pity. Well, no, not really. You're dishonest in your debate here, and I really have little interest in your games.

Answering your questions?

NigelUno wrote:

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Not interested in answering my questions? Pity. Well, no, not really. You're dishonest in your debate here, and I really have little interest in your games.

Answering your questions?

Fine. Let's discuss your road trip post.

You can drive from Michigan to Maine, but you should be aware of "U.S. Code 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms." You will also need to research all of the states in which you intend to travel through to check their reciprocity for carry permits. You will also need to memorize the seven states which have a duty to inform just in case you are pulled over. Are you travelling through a state which has any magazine restrictions? Does your pistol hold 12, 15, 20, or more rounds? You might be fucked. Stopping for a break? Need to stop for an hour to recharge that EV? Are you allowed to carry your firearm or will you need to leave it within the vehicle? If required to leave in the vehicle, are there laws stating specifications? Don't just look at the state level laws. You will also need to research county and city level laws, as well.

But go through all of those simple steps, and yeah, you're in America, Land of the Free. Hop in your car and go. /s

Cameron wrote:

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Perhaps I am sensitive to being a good message board participant. I believe when someone makes a claim, without acknowledging other's opinions, they aren't being a good participant. Yes, my opinion is that the Earth is round, but to ignore the fact that there is a portion of the population out there who honestly believe the Earth is flat, is minimizing them as a people. And yes, you used two very safe, vanilla examples. But if I were to claim "The Lord God Almighty created the heavens and Earth, and sent his son to atone for our sins" without acknowledging that there are many people out there who would disagree with that statement.... that doesn't make me a good participant in the conversation, does it? So yes, I try to acknowledge opposing view points in an attempt to promote honest, good, healthy discussion. That's something that I feel, unfortunately, is missing in many forums such as this board. So I try to be respectful of other's opinions no matter how much I disagree with them, or how bat shit crazy they may be. :)

That's fucking weird, dude.

No. Its not weird. Its being tolerant of people with differing opinions. Some people are set in their ways and are not open to listen to others or to see the world in from someone elses perspective.
But hey you can have your own opinion. Some people are intrigued by discussion.

Cameron wrote:

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Perhaps I am sensitive to being a good message board participant. I believe when someone makes a claim, without acknowledging other's opinions, they aren't being a good participant. Yes, my opinion is that the Earth is round, but to ignore the fact that there is a portion of the population out there who honestly believe the Earth is flat, is minimizing them as a people. And yes, you used two very safe, vanilla examples. But if I were to claim "The Lord God Almighty created the heavens and Earth, and sent his son to atone for our sins" without acknowledging that there are many people out there who would disagree with that statement.... that doesn't make me a good participant in the conversation, does it? So yes, I try to acknowledge opposing view points in an attempt to promote honest, good, healthy discussion. That's something that I feel, unfortunately, is missing in many forums such as this board. So I try to be respectful of other's opinions no matter how much I disagree with them, or how bat shit crazy they may be. :)

That's fucking weird, dude.

Welcome to 2022. Where being respectful of other's opinions is considered "fucking weird, dude."

We're all doomed.

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Cameron wrote:

That's fucking weird, dude.

Welcome to 2022. Where being respectful of other's opinions is considered "fucking weird, dude."

We're all doomed.

Yeah. Welcome to 2022. Where you can just say stuff, and then when someone asks you about it...you attack them.

NigelUno wrote:

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Welcome to 2022. Where being respectful of other's opinions is considered "fucking weird, dude."

We're all doomed.

Yeah. Welcome to 2022. Where you can just say stuff, and then when someone asks you about it...you attack them.

You’ll get over it.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:couple of more mass shootings over the weekend.. the NRA - America's Terrorist Organization - and the GOP celebrate.

Especially because of the two minors that were slaughtered. Those two fortunate souls escaped abortion to grow to the ripe old age of under 18 to be slaughtered by Patriots exercising their 2nd Amendment rights!

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Answering your questions?

Fine. Let's discuss your road trip post.

You can drive from Michigan to Maine, but you should be aware of "U.S. Code 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms." You will also need to research all of the states in which you intend to travel through to check their reciprocity for carry permits. You will also need to memorize the seven states which have a duty to inform just in case you are pulled over. Are you travelling through a state which has any magazine restrictions? Does your pistol hold 12, 15, 20, or more rounds? You might be fucked. Stopping for a break? Need to stop for an hour to recharge that EV? Are you allowed to carry your firearm or will you need to leave it within the vehicle? If required to leave in the vehicle, are there laws stating specifications? Don't just look at the state level laws. You will also need to research county and city level laws, as well.

But go through all of those simple steps, and yeah, you're in America, Land of the Free. Hop in your car and go. /s

My road trip post?
YOU made the road trip post, then ran from it.
You still have yet to give examples of law abiding citizens who have made this perilous road trip in the face of the dangers of government oversight.

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

‘Hey guys.  Don’t drive from Michigan to Maine!’
- Why not?
‘Google it!’

Not interested in answering my questions?  Pity.  Well, no, not really.  You're dishonest in your debate here, and I really have little interest in your games.

What am I being dishonest about?

Kind of seems like you’re the one making statements and then when pressed to discuss them…you deflect and get angry.

That doesn’t seem like honest discussion.

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Answering your questions?

Fine. Let's discuss your road trip post.

You can drive from Michigan to Maine, but you should be aware of "U.S. Code 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms." You will also need to research all of the states in which you intend to travel through to check their reciprocity for carry permits. You will also need to memorize the seven states which have a duty to inform just in case you are pulled over. Are you travelling through a state which has any magazine restrictions? Does your pistol hold 12, 15, 20, or more rounds? You might be fucked. Stopping for a break? Need to stop for an hour to recharge that EV? Are you allowed to carry your firearm or will you need to leave it within the vehicle? If required to leave in the vehicle, are there laws stating specifications? Don't just look at the state level laws. You will also need to research county and city level laws, as well.

But go through all of those simple steps, and yeah, you're in America, Land of the Free. Hop in your car and go. /s

Can you now do a hypothetical in which someone rents a UHaul van and drives from Pennsylvania to NYC?

Thanks

NumbersDude wrote:

Cameron wrote:

That's fucking weird, dude.

No. Its not weird. Its being tolerant of people with differing opinions. Some people are set in their ways and are not open to listen to others or to see the world in from someone elses perspective.
But hey you can have your own opinion. Some people are intrigued by discussion.

That depends on the opinion.

Vady Putin has "opinions" about Ukraine.

Should we respect them?

Trapper Gus wrote:

NumbersDude wrote:

No. Its not weird. Its being tolerant of people with differing opinions. Some people are set in their ways and are not open to listen to others or to see the world in from someone elses perspective.
  But hey you can have your own opinion. Some people are intrigued by discussion.

That depends on the opinion.

Vady Putin has "opinions" about Ukraine.

Should we respect them?

Listen to his opinion and what he says. Gain insight on his mindset and motivation. Gather intel on his actions. Use it to defeat him and to counter him.
   By observing and engaging in dialogue you learn more about your advisaries and how to best deal with them.
  Trapper- I actually like you. Too bad cosmo doesnt post anymore.

NumbersDude wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

That depends on the opinion.

Vady Putin has "opinions" about Ukraine.

Should we respect them?

Listen to his opinion and what he says. Gain insight on his mindset and motivation. Gather intel on his actions. Use it to defeat him and to counter him.
By observing and engaging in dialogue you learn more about your advisaries and how to best deal with them.
Trapper- I actually like you. Too bad cosmo doesnt post anymore.

Discussing opinions which have no basis in facts, such as many internet memes that Conservatives bombard the internets with, is time wasting pig wrestling which goes nowhere.

Take guns, for example. To the gun nuts there is no rational dicussion, they just point to the 2nd as though it is a unchangable part of reality, like the speed of light.

Clearly guns are used to kill, which is their primary purpose. As of yet, to the best of my recollection, no gun posession advolcating poster has been willing to agree with that fact.

Trapper Gus wrote:

NumbersDude wrote:

Listen to his opinion and what he says. Gain insight on his mindset and motivation. Gather intel on his actions. Use it to defeat him and to counter him.
   By observing and engaging in dialogue you learn more about your advisaries and how to best deal with them.
  Trapper- I actually like you. Too bad cosmo doesnt post anymore.

Discussing opinions which have no basis in facts, such as many internet memes that Conservatives bombard the internets with, is time wasting pig wrestling which goes nowhere.

Take guns, for example.  To the gun nuts there is no rational dicussion, they just point to the 2nd as though it is a unchangable part of reality, like the speed of light.

Clearly guns are used to kill, which is their primary purpose.  As of yet, to the best of my recollection, no gun posession advolcating poster has been willing to agree with that fact.

Some people have different purposes for different items.
You use your car as a mode of transportation. Some race cars for entertainment.
You think guns are for killing. Others have guns for protection, hunting, target practice.

NumbersDude wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Discussing opinions which have no basis in facts, such as many internet memes that Conservatives bombard the internets with, is time wasting pig wrestling which goes nowhere.

Take guns, for example.  To the gun nuts there is no rational dicussion, they just point to the 2nd as though it is a unchangable part of reality, like the speed of light.

Clearly guns are used to kill, which is their primary purpose.  As of yet, to the best of my recollection, no gun posession advolcating poster has been willing to agree with that fact.

Some people have different purposes for different items.
You use your car as a mode of transportation. Some race cars for entertainment.
You think guns are for killing. Others have guns for protection, hunting, target practice.

As I said, no gun advocate has yet to accept that guns primary purpose it to kill. Two of the three uses you listed are killing and the third is developing a skill to use the gun in its primary fuction effectively.

Trapper Gus wrote:

NumbersDude wrote:

Some people have different purposes for different items.
You use your car as a mode of transportation. Some race cars for entertainment.
You think guns are for killing. Others have guns for protection, hunting, target practice.

As I said, no gun advocate has yet to accept that guns primary purpose it to kill.  Two of the three uses you listed are killing and the third is developing a skill to use the gun in its primary fuction effectively.

  Trapper. I am a foodie not a fighter. Hell I don’t hunt and love birds and animals.
My guns arent used for killing.

Trapper Gus wrote:

NumbersDude wrote:

Listen to his opinion and what he says. Gain insight on his mindset and motivation. Gather intel on his actions. Use it to defeat him and to counter him.
By observing and engaging in dialogue you learn more about your advisaries and how to best deal with them.
Trapper- I actually like you. Too bad cosmo doesnt post anymore.

Discussing opinions which have no basis in facts, such as many internet memes that Conservatives bombard the internets with, is time wasting pig wrestling which goes nowhere.

Take guns, for example. To the gun nuts there is no rational dicussion, they just point to the 2nd as though it is a unchangable part of reality, like the speed of light.

Clearly guns are used to kill, which is their primary purpose. As of yet, to the best of my recollection, no gun posession advolcating poster has been willing to agree with that fact.

Let's say you're right and the primary purpose of a gun is to kill things.

So what? That changes absolutely nothing about any of these discussions.

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Discussing opinions which have no basis in facts, such as many internet memes that Conservatives bombard the internets with, is time wasting pig wrestling which goes nowhere.

Take guns, for example. To the gun nuts there is no rational dicussion, they just point to the 2nd as though it is a unchangable part of reality, like the speed of light.

Clearly guns are used to kill, which is their primary purpose. As of yet, to the best of my recollection, no gun posession advolcating poster has been willing to agree with that fact.

Let's say you're right and the primary purpose of a gun is to kill things.

So what? That changes absolutely nothing about any of these discussions.

It changes the arguments regarding justification of having guns in society. The argument of if there should be 400 Million tools to kill with is much different than calling them "protection" or "for hunting".

So words matter.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Let's say you're right and the primary purpose of a gun is to kill things.

So what? That changes absolutely nothing about any of these discussions.

It changes the arguments regarding justification of having guns in society. The argument of if there should be 400 Million tools to kill with is much different than calling them "protection" or "for hunting".

So words matter.

How are you going to "protect" yourself with something nonlethal? Protect = kill.

And boy howdy, good luck if you want to go tell the hunters you're taking away their guns. Lemme know when you drop that one on them, I want to see the reaction.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:reminder... the GOP is "pro-life".

No they're not. Stop being disingenuous.

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

It changes the arguments regarding justification of having guns in society.  The argument of if there should be 400 Million tools to kill with is much different than calling them "protection" or "for hunting".

So words matter.

How are you going to "protect" yourself with something nonlethal?  Protect = kill.

And boy howdy, good luck if you want to go tell the hunters you're taking away their guns.    Lemme know when you drop that one on them, I want to see the reaction.

Self defense experts say the best protection, besides not getting yourself into a situation where you need protection, is to run away.

A vast majority of people in the United States have managed to avoid situations in which running away was necessary.

The hunters could check their single shot smooth bore shotguns to go hunting from the local armory in my proposed regulation of guns system.

Of course the issues of creating such a system are legion since part of the US population have been brainwashed into believing they need guns for "protection" via decades of myths from the gun sellers and right wing politicians digging for votes.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

How are you going to "protect" yourself with something nonlethal?  Protect = kill.

And boy howdy, good luck if you want to go tell the hunters you're taking away their guns.    Lemme know when you drop that one on them, I want to see the reaction.

Self defense experts say the best protection, besides not getting yourself into a situation where you need protection, is to run away.

A vast majority of people in the United States have managed to avoid situations in which running away was necessary.

The hunters could check their single shot smooth bore shotguns to go hunting from the local armory in my proposed regulation of guns system.

Of course the issues of creating such a system are legion since part of the US population have been brainwashed into believing they need guns for "protection" via decades of myths from the gun sellers and right wing politicians digging for votes.

Running away?!? Where you going to run when an armed mugger confronts you in the street? How are you going to run away when someone breaks into your house at night? How are you going to run away when someone is assaulting you?

Yeah. Running away is a liberal fucking pipe dream.

Using the word when is adorable. So scared.

Oh no! Look behind you! It’s the big bad wolf!

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Self defense experts say the best protection, besides not getting yourself into a situation where you need protection, is to run away.

A vast majority of people in the United States have managed to avoid situations in which running away was necessary.

The hunters could check their single shot smooth bore shotguns to go hunting from the local armory in my proposed regulation of guns system.

Of course the issues of creating such a system are legion since part of the US population have been brainwashed into believing they need guns for "protection" via decades of myths from the gun sellers and right wing politicians digging for votes.

Running away?!?  Where you going to run when an armed mugger confronts you in the street?   How are you going to run away when someone breaks into your house at night?  How are you going to run away when someone is assaulting you?  

Yeah.  Running away is a liberal fucking pipe dream.

Armed with what since there are no guns?

However, yes, run away.  Which is what all self defense training says to do.

Also, as noted the situations you are hyptosizing don't happen that often and in all cases running away is better self defense than confrontation.  The only reason to engage with someone intent on bodily harm is so you can run away.

Far from being a pipe dream it is what every self defense expert or trainer will teach you to do.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Running away?!?  Where you going to run when an armed mugger confronts you in the street?   How are you going to run away when someone breaks into your house at night?  How are you going to run away when someone is assaulting you?  

Yeah.  Running away is a liberal fucking pipe dream.

Armed with what since there are no guns?

However, yes, run away.  Which is what all self defense training says to do.

Also, as noted the situations you are hyptosizing don't happen that often and in all cases running away is better self defense than confrontation.  The only reason to engage with someone intent on bodily harm is so you can run away.

Far from being a pipe dream it is what every self defense expert or trainer will teach you to do.

My self defense teacher said running away should be your first option. I notice your plan doesn't have any options 2-n. Good luck with that to you and your loved ones. Yeah, those situations don't happen often. It's a percentages game. Hope you don't lose.

Chances of death by gun go up significantly when there is access to a gun in the house. That’s just the truth. Child death by gun (accidental or suicide) goes up significantly, women are far more likely to be killed when there’s a gun in the house, especially with an abusive partner. It’s just fact that you’re so much more likely to be killed with your own firearm than to ever have anyone enter your home.

Rocinante wrote:Chances of death by gun go up significantly when there is access to a gun in the house. That’s just the truth. Child death by gun (accidental or suicide) goes up significantly, women are far more likely to be killed when there’s a gun in the house, especially with an abusive partner. It’s just fact that you’re so much more likely to be killed with your own firearm than to ever have anyone enter your home.

I can see where, if there wasn't a gun in the house, there would be less chance of being killed by a gun within the house. There's some statistics for ya, there! Kind of like when Trump told us COVID cases would go down if we stopped testing.



Look, friend, I'm not mandating that everyone have a gun in their house (although that's an interesting idea...) but leave those of us who have read your silly statistics and are willing to chance it, the fuck alone.

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Rocinante wrote:Chances of death by gun go up significantly when there is access to a gun in the house. That’s just the truth. Child death by gun (accidental or suicide) goes up significantly, women are far more likely to be killed when there’s a gun in the house, especially with an abusive partner. It’s just fact that you’re so much more likely to be killed with your own firearm than to ever have anyone enter your home.

I can see where, if there wasn't a gun in the house, there would be less chance of being killed by a gun within the house. There's some statistics for ya, there! Kind of like when Trump told us COVID cases would go down if we stopped testing.



Look, friend, I'm not mandating that everyone have a gun in their house (although that's an interesting idea...) but leave those of us who have read your silly statistics and are willing to chance it, the fuck alone.

However, if one cares about "death by firearm" then the logical soultion is to remove firearms from the situations.

Cameron wrote:

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

How are you going to "protect" yourself with something nonlethal? Protect = kill.

Ever heard of a shield?

Protect and kill are not synonyms.

You're gonna stop an intruder from raping your wife and kids with a shield?

Good luck.

Bredo Morstoel wrote:

Rocinante wrote:Chances of death by gun go up significantly when there is access to a gun in the house. That’s just the truth. Child death by gun (accidental or suicide) goes up significantly, women are far more likely to be killed when there’s a gun in the house, especially with an abusive partner. It’s just fact that you’re so much more likely to be killed with your own firearm than to ever have anyone enter your home.

I can see where, if there wasn't a gun in the house, there would be less chance of being killed by a gun within the house. There's some statistics for ya, there! Kind of like when Trump told us COVID cases would go down if we stopped testing.



Look, friend, I'm not mandating that everyone have a gun in their house (although that's an interesting idea...) but leave those of us who have read your silly statistics and are willing to chance it, the fuck alone.

I think you misunderstood. With a gun in the home you are more likely to be killed by that one gun than you are by someone killing you with one of the roughly 350 million guns currently in the US.