Re: Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates

by TravelinMan Thu 6 Jun 2024 - 11:09

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:People Still Want Gas Cars Over Hybrids and EVs. (shocker!)

https://www.thedrive.com/news/people-still-want-gas-cars-over-hybrids-and-evs-study

This is built off of the same survey the other recently linked link was.

38% want ICE

Not a majority.

62% want some form of electric, either hybrid or BEV.

When we deep dive this the number one concern is charging which breaks down into too few public chargers and BEV range anxiety.

Or doing the other side of the math, 72% want some form of ICE.

by **Trapper Gus** Thu 6 Jun 2024 - 11:24

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

This is built off of the same survey the other recently linked link was.

38% want ICE

Not a majority.

62% want some form of electric, either hybrid or BEV.

When we deep dive this the number one concern is charging which breaks down into too few public chargers and BEV range anxiety.

Or doing the other side of the math, 72% want some form of ICE.

I wonder how much you know about the details of the hybrid power trains. Just to clue you in the ICE in a hybrid is nothing like an ICE in an pure ICE vehicle. Most use an Akinsin cycle, not an Otto cycle, and thus have little low rpm torque, which is instead provided by the electric motor.

I believe that the hybrid desires are driven by range anxiety, which is a reasonable, though overthought concern. However, because of this counting the hybrid option in the poll as a pure ICE is mostly false.

by TravelinMan Thu 6 Jun 2024 - 11:28

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Or doing the other side of the math, 72% want some form of ICE.

I wonder how much you know about the details of the hybrid power trains. Just to clue you in the ICE in a hybrid is nothing like an ICE in an pure ICE vehicle. Most use an Akinsin cycle, not an Otto cycle, and thus have little low rpm torque, which is instead provided by the electric motor.

I believe that the hybrid desires are driven by range anxiety, which is a reasonable, though overthought concern. However, because of this counting the hybrid option in the poll as a pure ICE is mostly false.

Did you mean Atkinson cycle?

by **Trapper Gus** Thu 6 Jun 2024 - 11:34

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

I wonder how much you know about the details of the hybrid power trains. Just to clue you in the ICE in a hybrid is nothing like an ICE in an pure ICE vehicle. Most use an Akinsin cycle, not an Otto cycle, and thus have little low rpm torque, which is instead provided by the electric motor.

I believe that the hybrid desires are driven by range anxiety, which is a reasonable, though overthought concern. However, because of this counting the hybrid option in the poll as a pure ICE is mostly false.

Did you mean Atkinson cycle?

Thanks, yes that is the accepted spelling.

by **Trapper Gus** Thu 6 Jun 2024 - 17:09

There will be more of this as smaller countries realize that BEV's mean less reliance on major oil companies.

https://apnews.com/article/nepal-ev-energy-hydropower-241d486f228051c73ff2793e043b0cca

by **Trapper Gus** Fri 7 Jun 2024 - 11:31

The automotive industry has entered a fiercely competitive phase in the electric vehicle transition, and it’s producing an intriguing result for US car buyers: the first long-range EVs that are cheaper to buy than the average gas-powered car.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-06-07/long-range-evs-now-cost-less-than-the-average-us-new-car

by Zurn Fri 7 Jun 2024 - 12:58

Trapper Gus wrote: Market share (EVs) in other countries is higher, in the largest car market on the globe, China, it's about 25%.

Trapper is proud of the Chinese using coal to power their cars.

by **Trapper Gus** Fri 7 Jun 2024 - 13:19

Zurn wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote: Market share (EVs) in other countries is higher, in the largest car market on the globe, China, it's about 25%.

Trapper is proud of the Chinese using coal to power their cars.

Baby steps, Zurn.

China is leading the globe in development of renewable generation electricty.

I have a different thread to discuss the development of renewable electricity generation.

The simple answer though, is that EV's are way more efficient in energy use that ICE's, and coal fired electrical generation is as efficient as it's operators can make it, thus even with coal generated electricity BV's cause a reduction in green house emissions.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/china-renewable-energy#:~:text=China%20aims%20to%20build%20more,use%20lags%20behind%20installed%20capacity.

by **Trapper Gus** Tue 11 Jun 2024 - 8:10

Another option to charging a BEV, takes about 60 seconds.

[tw]1799848763332186216[/tw]

by Zurn Tue 11 Jun 2024 - 15:05

Just got an email from DTE wanting me to sign up for a program that would allow them to set my AC to a higher temp during times when they can't make enough electricity to satisfy demand.

I wonder if they will do the same to Trapper's EV charger?

by **Trapper Gus** Tue 11 Jun 2024 - 18:06

Zurn wrote:Just got an email from DTE wanting me to sign up for a program that would allow them to set my AC to a higher temp during times when they can't make enough electricity to satisfy demand.

I wonder if they will do the same to Trapper's EV charger?

You are so far behind the times. My furance/AC & hot water are all on interuptable service.

by Zurn Tue 11 Jun 2024 - 21:38

Your EV charger too?

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 6:47

Zurn wrote:Your EV charger too?

I don't yet have a pluggable EV but interruptible service for charging wouldn't be a problem, as that is used during peak electricity demand times, typically 2 PM to 7 PM and EV charging is typically at nighttime, though in CA the power companies are suggesting daytime charging since with the high penetration of solar renewable generation the peak generation time is during the day.

I've had interruptible service for over 25 years and can count on one hand the number of times DTE has interrupted my service. I only remember once. DTW has more trouble with storms than with too much demand.

BTW, it looks like RTV's companies are building their own charging networks.

https://www.axios.com/2024/06/12/polaris-electric-atv-trail-charging-network

by TravelinMan Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 10:07

Trapper Gus wrote:
Zurn wrote:Just got an email from DTE wanting me to sign up for a program that would allow them to set my AC to a higher temp during times when they can't make enough electricity to satisfy demand.

I wonder if they will do the same to Trapper's EV charger?

You are so far behind the times. My furance/AC & hot water are all on interuptable service.

As someone who's spent some time in the utility industry, I would strongly urge you to reconsider this choice. People who sign up for this are fools. You couldn't convince me to do it with a gun to my head.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 10:30

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

You are so far behind the times. My furance/AC & hot water are all on interuptable service.

As someone who's spent some time in the utility industry, I would strongly urge you to reconsider this choice. People who sign up for this are fools. You couldn't convince me to do it with a gun to my head.

Finally we have a use for all your guns. /s

However, if you had read the rest of the thread, you would know I have had interruptible service, from DTE, first for my hot water heater, then for that and my geothermal furnace, for over 25 years.

As I said, I had more issues with power outages caused by storms & equipment failures than by DTE using the interrupt.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Detroit/comments/6nxwh2/dte_coolcurrents_interruptable_ac/

edit - I am wondering if you are confusing industrial customers with residential?

by TravelinMan Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 10:40

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

As someone who's spent some time in the utility industry, I would strongly urge you to reconsider this choice. People who sign up for this are fools. You couldn't convince me to do it with a gun to my head.

Finally we have a use for all your guns. /s

However, if you had read the rest of the thread, you would know I have had interruptible service, from DTE, first for my hot water heater, then for that and my geothermal furnace, for over 25 years.

As I said, I had more issues with power outages caused by storms & equipment failures than by DTE using the interrupt.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Detroit/comments/6nxwh2/dte_coolcurrents_interruptable_ac/

edit - I am wondering if you are confusing industrial customers with residential?

I read your post. Did you read mine? Don't do it. It's a bad idea. I mean, your data is already lost, but at least get out and prevent it from getting worse.

Edit: You must not be too broken up about that Sandy Hook graduation to make gun jokes. Cool.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 10:45

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Finally we have a use for all your guns. /s

However, if you had read the rest of the thread, you would know I have had interruptible service, from DTE, first for my hot water heater, then for that and my geothermal furnace, for over 25 years.

As I said, I had more issues with power outages caused by storms & equipment failures than by DTE using the interrupt.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Detroit/comments/6nxwh2/dte_coolcurrents_interruptable_ac/

edit - I am wondering if you are confusing industrial customers with residential?

I read your post. Did you read mine? Don't do it. It's a bad idea. I mean, your data is already lost, but at least get out and prevent it from getting worse.

Edit: You must not be too broken up about that Sandy Hook graduation to make gun jokes. Cool.

I wasn't sure because you could have replied to the last post in the thread but used an earlier post which didn't include the 25 years of experience with the program.

As for your guns, scrap metal is their best use and fuck you making light of the murder of school kids.

by TravelinMan Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 10:52

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

I read your post. Did you read mine? Don't do it. It's a bad idea. I mean, your data is already lost, but at least get out and prevent it from getting worse.

Edit: You must not be too broken up about that Sandy Hook graduation to make gun jokes. Cool.

I wasn't sure because you could have replied to the last post in the thread but used an earlier post which didn't include the 25 years of experience with the program.

As for your guns, scrap metal is their best use and fuck you making light of the murder of school kids.

by Zurn Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 12:02

GM just announced a 17% cut in predicted EV production. And that was with a starting point of only 300,000.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 14:27

EV sales are price driven, just like ICE sales. This is the number one reason fewer EV are being sold as the OEMs did what the OEMs have done with all new tech, which is build higher priced vehicles at first. GM is introducing cheaper versions going into the summer so we will see how those sell.

Second to price is the build out of fueling infrastructure, an area where a number of independent and OEM based companies are starting up. They are probably 2 to 10 years away from having a charger at every corner like gas stations, and until people see that type of charger market penetrative there will be buying resistance.

by TravelinMan Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 14:30

Trapper Gus wrote:EV sales are price driven, just like ICE sales. This is the number one reason fewer EV are being sold as the OEMs did what the OEMs have done with all new tech, which is build higher priced vehicles at first. GM is introducing cheaper versions going into the summer so we will see how those sell.

Second to price is the build out of fueling infrastructure, an area where a number of independent and OEM based companies are starting up. They are probably 2 to 10 years away from having a charger at every corner like gas stations, and until people see that type of charger market penetrative there will be buying resistance.

2 to 10 years?!? Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 21 502811600

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 12 Jun 2024 - 14:40

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:EV sales are price driven, just like ICE sales. This is the number one reason fewer EV are being sold as the OEMs did what the OEMs have done with all new tech, which is build higher priced vehicles at first. GM is introducing cheaper versions going into the summer so we will see how those sell.

Second to price is the build out of fueling infrastructure, an area where a number of independent and OEM based companies are starting up. They are probably 2 to 10 years away from having a charger at every corner like gas stations, and until people see that type of charger market penetrative there will be buying resistance.

2 to 10 years?!?

Depending on where you live.

Cities and states like CA will be leading the curve on this and rural areas will be behind the curve.

The charger companies also are working to find a cookie cutter model that people like. Charging times being longer than pumping gas in a tank, though dropping, is the convenience store model better? They are trying that out, along with the early adapter model of rows of chargers at Mijers.

Also, though I didn't mention it, the turnover of BEV's into the used car market will be a factor in more demand for "chargers on every corner"

edit - as you know, I have been consistent on this timing. Back in the 2020/21 time frame I was telling you and the other skeptics to wait until the 2024/26 time frame to see what BEV's were going to be, as that was when multi models would be being placed on the market. Now the next market barrier is the charging networks, and yes the time frame is much wider, partly due to geography, but it will happen. Not sure how home charging fits into this, but for a daily commuting car for the 3-sigma drivers, once they adjust it will speed up BEV sales.

edit2 - link to new charger company

https://www.theverge.com/24176160/ionna-ev-charging-dc-fast-headquarters-network

by TravelinMan Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 8:36

2 to 10 years.

https://jalopnik.com/copper-thieves-are-making-a-pretty-penny-looting-chargi-1851536229

by **Trapper Gus** Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 8:40

TravelinMan wrote:2 to 10 years.

https://jalopnik.com/copper-thieves-are-making-a-pretty-penny-looting-chargi-1851536229

One of the reasons that the early adaptors idea of unattended charging stations will not work.

My guess is that charging stations will become some sort of "convivence" stop, like the service stops on tollways, where you can pay at the charger, or go in and pay cash at the counter, with the upscale ones having other amenities, like showers.

I also envision deluxe home chargers with energy storage over time, such as rechargeable batteries, capacitors and or other means of energy storage which will facilitate much fast charging than home electrical service supports without storage.

by Zurn Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 8:51

The whole idea that fueling an EV (they do it with coal in China) is or will be cost efficient is comical. The price of electricity is regulated (a corrupt process however). But if you provide commercial chargers (like the ones Trapper mentioned at Meijer) you can charge what ever you want for the electricity. Given that the supply of electricity barely meets the demand (hence the need for them to control your HVAC as we have discussed) charging an EV with all these chargers Trapper is expecting, costs you more than just buying gas.

Probably a reason Trapper doesn't own an EV.

by **Trapper Gus** Thu 13 Jun 2024 - 9:22

Zurn wrote:The whole idea that fueling an EV (they do it with coal in China) is or will be cost efficient is comical. The price of electricity is regulated (a corrupt process however). But if you provide commercial chargers (like the ones Trapper mentioned at Meijer) you can charge what ever you want for the electricity. Given that the supply of electricity barely meets the demand (hence the need for them to control your HVAC as we have discussed) charging an EV with all these chargers Trapper is expecting costs you more than just buying gas.

Probably a reason Trapper doesn't own an EV.

China has increased its production of electricity from renewable generations sources the most of any major country in the last year. Fox News has "forgotten" to tell you this.

All human processes had an element of "corruption" within them, they can be controlled via governments that we elect and therefore have some control over, or by the "markets" which is just mean you will be ripped off by billionaires. You seem to like the latter; I have no idea why. For an example of this market method, look at Texas where a couple of years ago during deep freeze temperatures where the natural gas generating plants "failed" homeowners were getting electric bills for thousands of dollars due to market pricing.

The government-controlled markets for electricity, everywhere in the country except Texas, have provided electricity at prices which control the profits that the electric industry make and thus block the billionaires from ripping people off as much.

Funny that you are now complaining about market pricing at a Meijer parking lot when in the last breath you were complaining about government regulated markets.

The overall potential supply of electricity far outstrips demand, the problem is that the power companies don't want to turn on the generating plants to provide it, and would rather use interruptible metering, which makes more money for them. Market forces, Zurn, market forces. I thought you were all in on those.

Fuel costs for EV's is way lower than ICE vehicles, so that dog will not hunt.

Finally, I do own an EV, and until the deer took out my 2008 EV, I owned two EV's, but replacing one during the vehicle shortage caused by Trump meant I ended up with an ICE replacement.

by **Trapper Gus** Fri 14 Jun 2024 - 19:32

Anyone still want to talk about why companies based in a private sector economy cannot compete with the companies in the same industry based in a command economy?

https://electrek.co/2024/06/14/gm-had-6-billion-to-spend-on-next-gen-evs-chose-stock-buybacks-opinion/

by **Robert J Sakimano** Mon 17 Jun 2024 - 11:32

there is an "electric motorbike" on The Price Is Right right now.

I thought y'all should know.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon 17 Jun 2024 - 19:57

Robert J Sakimano wrote:there is an "electric motorbike" on The Price Is Right right now.

I thought y'all should know.

Yes, these are coming, though probably not from H-D

by **kingstonlake** Wed 19 Jun 2024 - 15:09

Losers

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/06/19/travel/protesters-spray-stonehenge-paint-gbr-scli-intl

by **Robert J Sakimano** Wed 19 Jun 2024 - 18:44

Trapper Gus wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:there is an "electric motorbike" on The Price Is Right right now.

I thought y'all should know.

Yes, these are coming, though probably not from H-D

I was just watching The Price Is Right, saw an electric motorized machine and figured I'd mention it here.

Yall carry on.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 19 Jun 2024 - 19:14

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Yes, these are coming, though probably not from H-D
I was just watching The Price Is Right, saw an electric motorized machine and figured I'd mention it here.

Yall carry on.

TLI - was it just an electric bike or an actual 100 mph motorcycle?

by **Trapper Gus** Wed 19 Jun 2024 - 19:39

kingstonlake wrote:Losers

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/06/19/travel/protesters-spray-stonehenge-paint-gbr-scli-intl

The losers are all of us who are living through the results of hundreds of years of pumping global warming gases into the atmosphere. We are seeing the effects and will be seeing worse effects. We are all fucked.

From 2011'ish

Last night

by **Trapper Gus** Thu 20 Jun 2024 - 10:37

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bank-america-tells-detroit-big-134528060.html

This is how the banks control industries.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu 20 Jun 2024 - 12:12

was out on a ride this morning, cut through the Northern Tier Trail.. passed someone wearing a dress riding what I believe was an e-bike.

Didn't seem like comfortable attire, but maybe they were on their way to work?

by **Trapper Gus** Thu 20 Jun 2024 - 14:10

Robert J Sakimano wrote:was out on a ride this morning, cut through the Northern Tier Trail.. passed someone wearing a dress riding what I believe was an e-bike.

Didn't seem like comfortable attire, but maybe they were on their way to work?

There are many forms of "dresses" so we made need pictures, however, if it was a summer dress seems like it may just be a way to wear short shorts modestly.

by **Trapper Gus** Thu 20 Jun 2024 - 14:18

Looked up H-D electric motorcycles... this is not the H-D I grew up with and started riding on...

https://www.livewire.com/livewire-one-electric-motorcycle

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu 20 Jun 2024 - 15:25

Trapper Gus wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:was out on a ride this morning, cut through the Northern Tier Trail.. passed someone wearing a dress riding what I believe was an e-bike.

Didn't seem like comfortable attire, but maybe they were on their way to work?

There are many forms of "dresses" so we made need pictures, however, if it was a summer dress seems like it may just be a way to wear short shorts modestly.

I was moving pretty good so I didn't spend a ton of time analyzing.

I'm still not completely sure what an 'e-bike' is, I just figured it's what they were riding because they were moving without pedaling.

by TravelinMan Thu 20 Jun 2024 - 15:33

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

There are many forms of "dresses" so we made need pictures, however, if it was a summer dress seems like it may just be a way to wear short shorts modestly.
I was moving pretty good so I didn't spend a ton of time analyzing.

I'm still not completely sure what an 'e-bike' is, I just figured it's what they were riding because they were moving without pedaling.

I know you don't really care, but this is my e-bike:

Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 21 Img_1010

This was taken while I was riding back from town. Probably better than driving the truck, but surely not as cool as "real" bike people.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu 20 Jun 2024 - 15:42

TravelinMan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:I was moving pretty good so I didn't spend a ton of time analyzing.

I'm still not completely sure what an 'e-bike' is, I just figured it's what they were riding because they were moving without pedaling.

I know you don't really care, but this is my e-bike:

This was taken while I was riding back from town. Probably better than driving the truck, but surely not as cool as "real" bike people.

do you wear a dress while riding it?

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