Re: t2024 presidential election thread. Let’s do this. Biden v. Trump II

[TravelinMan]

As a Libertarian, I’d say if the purpose of the oil reserve was to control market prices, then it’s a failure and should be abolished.

However, I believe the primary purpose of the reserve is for our military and emergency response crews to have access to oil should the need arise. For that purpose, it makes sense.

Looks like it's purpose is not for self defense but instead for controlling oil prices, and always has been.

https://www.energy.gov/ceser/strategic-petroleum-reserve#:~:text=The%20Strategic%20Petroleum%20Reserve%20(SPR,under%20the%20international%20energy%20program.

That’s not what I’ve been told, but if so, then the libertarian in me thinks that’s horse shit.

[Robert J Sakimano]

less than a week after their hero has been convicted of 34 felonies, the mainstream media is doing their job.

Behind Closed Doors, Biden Shows Signs of Slipping

and its only June.. if you're a fan of democracy and decency, have respect for the Constitution and the rule of law, brace yourself. The onslaught from the mainstream media, Russia, China, etc is gonna get a lot worse.

Caution: Mainstream Media Link

[Trapper Gus]

‘Antihero’ or ‘Felon’: 11 Undecided Voters Struggle With How to See Trump Post-Verdict

Ben, you’re up. Can you explain why undecided?

Ben, 42, Texas, white, college adviser

A couple people have mentioned a massive judicial conspiracy of everybody going after him. OK, let’s talk conspiracy math here. The sheer number of people who would have to be working together to get something like this working just boggles the mind. And have you ever tried to get four people to agree on what to order for pizza? I just don’t see this working out. And at the end of the day, OK, fine. OK, I’m going to side with Jonathan on this one, saying, what’s the big deal about bribing Stormy Daniels? But I want a president who’s going to be able to cover up a $130,000 bribe to Daniels. If he can’t pull that off, I’m not going to trust him with the nuclear football. This seems like such an easy thing for him to screw up. I’m kind of leaning toward Biden now.

[sεяεηιτλ]

As a Libertarian, I’d say if the purpose of the oil reserve was to control market prices, then it’s a failure and should be abolished.

However, I believe the primary purpose of the reserve is for our military and emergency response crews to have access to oil should the need arise. For that purpose, it makes sense.

Looks like it's purpose is not for self defense but instead for controlling oil prices, and always has been.

https://www.energy.gov/ceser/strategic-petroleum-reserve#:~:text=The%20Strategic%20Petroleum%20Reserve%20(SPR,under%20the%20international%20energy%20program.

Imo, it can be used for both controlling prices and self defence. Controlling prices IS self defence in various contexts, such as coming up on an election. It would be used to defend ourselves from foreign influence

[sεяεηιτλ]

‘Antihero’ or ‘Felon’: 11 Undecided Voters Struggle With How to See Trump Post-Verdict

Ben, you’re up. Can you explain why undecided?

Ben, 42, Texas, white, college adviser

A couple people have mentioned a massive judicial conspiracy of everybody going after him. OK, let’s talk conspiracy math here. The sheer number of people who would have to be working together to get something like this working just boggles the mind. And have you ever tried to get four people to agree on what to order for pizza? I just don’t see this working out. And at the end of the day, OK, fine. OK, I’m going to side with Jonathan on this one, saying, what’s the big deal about bribing Stormy Daniels? But I want a president who’s going to be able to cover up a $130,000 bribe to Daniels. If he can’t pull that off, I’m not going to trust him with the nuclear football. This seems like such an easy thing for him to screw up. I’m kind of leaning toward Biden now.

LOfreakingL

[TravelinMan]

Looks like it's purpose is not for self defense but instead for controlling oil prices, and always has been.

https://www.energy.gov/ceser/strategic-petroleum-reserve#:~:text=The%20Strategic%20Petroleum%20Reserve%20(SPR,under%20the%20international%20energy%20program.

Imo, it can be used for both controlling prices and self defence. Controlling prices IS self defence in various contexts, such as coming up on an election. It would be used to defend ourselves from foreign influence

An incumbent controlling prices during an election feels a bit iffy to me. I'm sure no laws are being broken, but how is that on the up and up?

[Trapper Gus]

Imo, it can be used for both controlling prices and self defence.  Controlling prices IS self defence in various contexts, such as coming up on an election.  It would be used to defend ourselves from foreign influence

An incumbent controlling prices during an election feels a bit iffy to me.  I'm sure no laws are being broken, but how is that on the up and up?

It is called the power of incumbency for good reason.

Do we really care if an upcoming election causes elected officials to take actions which are good for the country?

We could have a discussion about markets & Libertinism's various ideas, but leaving that aside, lower fuel prices allow money to be spend on other things, which generally is a good thing for the 99%.

[AvgMSUJoe]

Imo, it can be used for both controlling prices and self defence. Controlling prices IS self defence in various contexts, such as coming up on an election. It would be used to defend ourselves from foreign influence

An incumbent controlling prices during an election feels a bit iffy to me. I'm sure no laws are being broken, but how is that on the up and up?

So it's better if the Saudis have that power?

[AvgMSUJoe]

No one votes for someone because prices are low. They vote against someone because prices are high.

[TravelinMan]

An incumbent controlling prices during an election feels a bit iffy to me.  I'm sure no laws are being broken, but how is that on the up and up?

It is called the power of incumbency for good reason.

Do we really care if an upcoming election causes elected officials to take actions which are good for the country?

We could have a discussion about markets & Libertinism's various ideas, but leaving that aside, lower fuel prices allow money to be spend on other things, which generally is a good thing for the 99%.

Yeah, any discussion we have on this is going to devolve into libertarian free market vs. common good, and I just can't today. Also libertarian idea of government's few useful features is to provide defense, which the strategic reserve should be used for, not for price manipulation, and blah blah blah. Let's skip to the end and agree to disagree. Biden is crushing it, orange man bad, I'm not voting for anyone which means I'm voting for Trump, let the MAGA slurs commence.

[TravelinMan]

An incumbent controlling prices during an election feels a bit iffy to me. I'm sure no laws are being broken, but how is that on the up and up?

So it's better if the Saudis have that power?

It's better if America has a cohesive energy policy that doesn't allow foreign market manipulation, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish, my friend.

[sεяεηιτλ]

Imo, it can be used for both controlling prices and self defence. Controlling prices IS self defence in various contexts, such as coming up on an election. It would be used to defend ourselves from foreign influence

An incumbent controlling prices during an election feels a bit iffy to me. I'm sure no laws are being broken, but how is that on the up and up?

It sure does, but having foreign countries instead control prices is wayyy more iffy. I'm ok with it as long as it is used to keep prices + or - 5 to 10 percent of recent averages. How about let's not abuse it to drop prices to two bucks per gallon but otherwise we cannot allow kushner/Saudi Arabia to drive up prices to influence our elections

[Trapper Gus]

It is called the power of incumbency for good reason.

Do we really care if an upcoming election causes elected officials to take actions which are good for the country?

We could have a discussion about markets & Libertinism's various ideas, but leaving that aside, lower fuel prices allow money to be spend on other things, which generally is a good thing for the 99%.

Yeah, any discussion we have on this is going to devolve into libertarian free market vs. common good, and I just can't today.  Also libertarian idea of government's few useful features is to provide defense, which the strategic reserve should be used for, not for price manipulation, and blah blah blah.  Let's skip to the end and agree to disagree.  Biden is crushing it, orange man bad, I'm not voting for anyone which means I'm voting for Trump, let the MAGA slurs commence.

Link to another totally not Libertarian act which probably saved Libertarianism

[Trapper Gus]

So it's better if the Saudis have that power?

It's better if America has a cohesive energy policy that doesn't allow foreign market manipulation, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish, my friend.

How does a country leave the rest of the globe, as what your post implies, to have an energy policy that doesn't allow "foreign" manipulation, and, in one sense the IRA, which is accelerating transition to renewable energy, which by definition is a cohesive energy policy is now something I guess you support.

https://wolfstreet.com/2024/06/03/eyepopping-factory-construction-boom-in-the-us-semiconductors-auto-industry-and-everyone-else/

[InTenSity]

Governor fuckface white boots of Florida had a gas holiday for the 2 months leading up to the election in 2022 in which he was running for governor. The thing was, there was no discernable difference and I'm pretty sure the gas stations just kept the 25 cents/gal for themselves.

[TravelinMan]

An incumbent controlling prices during an election feels a bit iffy to me. I'm sure no laws are being broken, but how is that on the up and up?

It sure does, but having foreign countries instead control prices is wayyy more iffy. I'm ok with it as long as it is used to keep prices + or - 5 to 10 percent of recent averages. How about let's not abuse it to drop prices to two bucks per gallon but otherwise we cannot allow kushner/Saudi Arabia to drive up prices to influence our elections

Iffyness (?!?) is a slippery slope.

When President Trump does some bullshit against 2028 Presidential candidate AOC, and claims it's "to protect the sanctity of our Democracy from foreign interference" or whatever, it's going to be the same thing (only probably more punitive and effective).

[Robert J Sakimano]

It sure does, but having foreign countries instead control prices is wayyy more iffy. I'm ok with it as long as it is used to keep prices + or - 5 to 10 percent of recent averages. How about let's not abuse it to drop prices to two bucks per gallon but otherwise we cannot allow kushner/Saudi Arabia to drive up prices to influence our elections

Iffyness (?!?) is a slippery slope.

When President Trump does some bullshit against 2028 Presidential candidate AOC, and claims it's "to protect the sanctity of our Democracy from foreign interference" or whatever, it's going to be the same thing (only probably more punitive and effective).

fuck, yeah - now you're talking.

[Trapper Gus]

It sure does, but having foreign countries instead control prices is wayyy more iffy. I'm ok with it as long as it is used to keep prices + or - 5 to 10 percent of recent averages. How about let's not abuse it to drop prices to two bucks per gallon but otherwise we cannot allow kushner/Saudi Arabia to drive up prices to influence our elections

Iffyness (?!?) is a slippery slope.

When President Trump does some bullshit against 2028 Presidential candidate AOC, and claims it's "to protect the sanctity of our Democracy from foreign interference" or whatever, it's going to be the same thing (only probably more punitive and effective).

You have a valid point, but it extends much farther than your example.

Right now, a number of states are limited the right to vote to voters that the Republicans prefer and eliminating voters that might vote for Democratic candidates. Democratic controlled states do pretty much none of that and instead try to make sure everyone can vote. What is your opinion on that?

[sεяεηιτλ]

It sure does, but having foreign countries instead control prices is wayyy more iffy.  I'm ok with it as long as it is used to keep prices + or - 5 to 10 percent of recent averages.  How about let's not abuse it to drop prices to two bucks per gallon but otherwise we cannot allow kushner/Saudi Arabia to drive up prices to influence our elections

Iffyness (?!?) is a slippery slope.

When President Trump does some bullshit against 2028 Presidential candidate AOC, and claims it's "to protect the sanctity of our Democracy from foreign interference" or whatever, it's going to be the same thing (only probably more punitive and effective).

Which is why I hope our current leaders don't manipulate pricing more than 5 or 10 percent from average.  Might be difficult to keep it exactly average so I build in a little leeway. I want a moral leg to stand on in 2028 so I can rage against the machine with righteousness

[Robert J Sakimano]

President Biden in Normandy to honor D-Day and the American patriots that sacrificed everything for democracy.

Biden lands in France for D-Day anniversary, democracy speech

why do I suspect that him being there and his speech will outrage republican/libertarians, Russia and the mainstream media?

Caution: Mainstream Media Link

[TravelinMan]

Iffyness (?!?) is a slippery slope.

When President Trump does some bullshit against 2028 Presidential candidate AOC, and claims it's "to protect the sanctity of our Democracy from foreign interference" or whatever, it's going to be the same thing (only probably more punitive and effective).

You have a valid point, but it extends much farther than your example.

Right now, a number of states are limited the right to vote to voters that the Republicans prefer and eliminating voters that might vote for Democratic candidates. Democratic controlled states do pretty much none of that and instead try to make sure everyone can vote. What is your opinion on that?

My opinion is that the two party system is corrupt and provides horrible candidates.

[Jake from State Farm]

President Biden in Normandy to honor D-Day and the American patriots that sacrificed everything for democracy.

Biden lands in France for D-Day anniversary, democracy speech

why do I suspect that him being there and his speech will outrage republican/libertarians, Russia and the mainstream media?

Caution: Mainstream Media Link

I hope it's not raining there cuz we wouldn't want Biden's hair to get messed up.

[Jake from State Farm]

You have a valid point, but it extends much farther than your example.

Right now, a number of states are limited the right to vote to voters that the Republicans prefer and eliminating voters that might vote for Democratic candidates. Democratic controlled states do pretty much none of that and instead try to make sure everyone can vote. What is your opinion on that?

My opinion is that the two party system is corrupt and provides horrible candidates.

The third party isn't any better. They have some guy with his brain eaten away by worms as their nominee

[Robert J Sakimano]

My opinion is that the two party system is corrupt and provides horrible candidates.

The third party isn't any better. They have some guy with his brain eaten away by worms as their nominee

and he's the favorite candidate of the intellectually nuanced.

[Trapper Gus]

You have a valid point, but it extends much farther than your example.

Right now, a number of states are limited the right to vote to voters that the Republicans prefer and eliminating voters that might vote for Democratic candidates. Democratic controlled states do pretty much none of that and instead try to make sure everyone can vote. What is your opinion on that?

My opinion is that the two party system is corrupt and provides horrible candidates.

While bunches of people say the same thing, I yet to have seen anyone suggest a candidate who is clearly better.

Sure, there are some who like this person or that person, however, the fact that these people were not good enough politicians to displace Trump or Biden is pretty much the end of why they are not better candidates.

[Cameron]

My opinion is that the two party system is corrupt and provides horrible candidates.

While bunches of people say the same thing, I yet to have seen anyone suggest a candidate who is clearly better.

Sure, there are some who like this person or that person, however, the fact that these people were not good enough politicians to displace Trump or Biden is pretty much the end of why they are not better candidates.

I've given you a list before. Your Biden glasses led you to the inevitable conclusion that Sleepy Genocide Joe is better, actually.

[Trapper Gus]

While bunches of people say the same thing, I yet to have seen anyone suggest a candidate who is clearly better.

Sure, there are some who like this person or that person, however, the fact that these people were not good enough politicians to displace Trump or Biden is pretty much the end of why they are not better candidates.

I've given you a list before. Your Biden glasses led you to the inevitable conclusion that Sleepy Genocide Joe is better, actually.

You don't get it.

Part of being better is being able to win the nomination.

While your list has some interesting policy ideas, policy ideas are not what move many people to vote.

If they are better politicians than Joe, then they would have the nomination.

Obama took the nomination away from Clinton in 2008 because he is the better politician.  Your list hasn't shown that they can do that.

[Cameron]

Your argument is a tautology. You ask for a list of better choices, but Biden won the nomination, not anyone else, so anyone else named is, in your mind, definitionally inferior because they failed to beat out Biden for the nomination, whether they actually even ran or not.

[Trapper Gus]

Your argument is a tautology. You ask for a list of better choices, but Biden won the nomination, not anyone else, so anyone else named is, in your mind, definitionally inferior because they failed to beat out Biden for the nomination, whether they actually even ran or not.

Yes, if you look at it that way, it is.

I look at is as they had the opportunity to try to win the nomination and because of who they would be facing and their chances of winning the nomination they decided they would not win and so they did not run.

If Obama had decided not to run in 2008 that would have been the same thing, many though he was nuts, running against Clinton, he proved them wrong.

The bottom line, they cannot be better if they cannot beat Biden, if by their choice to not run, or by running and losing.

[Cameron]

But you understand how pointless it is to discuss the issue with someone who takes such a position, yes?

[Trapper Gus]

But you understand how pointless it is to discuss the issue with someone who takes such a position, yes?

Not really an argument I guess, since Biden is clearly the winner.

What if's are pretty much meaningless, which is my point in the first post above about this.

The were afraid to take Biden on, with good reason. Biden won the 2020 nomination against others, mostly Sanders, though Warren & others were running and this since he has shown he wins without the incumbency the others are smart enough to know, or afraid enough, same thing, he will win with it.

All this "crying" about others being better just leads me to "They didn't show it on the field", as part of being better is beating Biden, so "scoreboard".

There were bunches of posts about how Biden shouldn't run and claims he is past his prime, but yet all the real experts, people who would have run against him, didn't agree.

[TravelinMan]

The two party system is corrupt and leads to bad choices.

Trapper: Name a candidate that's better and can win.

You're missing the point about it being a two party system that is corrupt.

[Trapper Gus]

The two party system is corrupt and leads to bad choices.

Trapper:  Name a candidate that's better and can win.

You're missing the point about it being a two party system that is corrupt.

I'm sorry.  All political systems have some corruption built into them.  Corruption is how things get done.

As those who believe in "free markets" know, little is done for free.

I was going to say that earlier but it is such an obvious point I thought you were just making a joke.

[sεяεηιτλ]

President Biden in Normandy to honor D-Day and the American patriots that sacrificed everything for democracy.

Biden lands in France for D-Day anniversary, democracy speech

why do I suspect that him being there and his speech will outrage republican/libertarians, Russia and the mainstream media?

Caution: Mainstream Media Link

waaaaa you're in france while your own son stands trial?! some pro-family president! NOT MY PRESIDENT!

[Robert J Sakimano]

not The Onion..  this dude is straight up Zurn and TM..

Riverside County Sheriff Chad Bianco says he is tired of legislators and elected officials not caring about the rule of law.

That’s why he says he’s endorsing former President Donald Trump, who was just convicted last week in the state of New York on 34 counts of falsifying business records, in the November election.

I think it’s time we put a felon in the White House,” Bianco said.  

The sheriff concluded his video by urging others to follow his lead.

“Trump 2024, baby,” Bianco said. “Let’s save this country and make America great again.”

you read that right - a Sheriff actively campaigning for a convicted felon, a convicted rapist.

like our friends here, they're not even hiding it anyone. It would be funny if it wasn't so frightening.

Caution: Mainstream Media Link

[Trapper Gus]

Not certifying the results of the presidential election and thus attempting to throw it into the US House is at the heart of Trump's plan to win in November.


https://apnews.com/article/election-2024-voting-results-certification-trump-09bb9d1fdc11b495b7c50687e5576997

Surprised that the Republicans have not picked up on the fact that election day this time is on Guy Fawkes Day.

[Trapper Gus]

https://thehill.com/business/4715574-bidens-capital-gains-taxes-would-boost-economic-equality-analysis/mlite/?nxs-test=mobile[/url

Raising taxes on the wealthy will improve the GDP.

[tw]1801602091489636357[/tw]

Remarkable - AP News actually points out that Trump made a mental mistake.

[url=https://apnews.com/article/trump-mental-acuity-gaffe-biden-ronny-jackson-0d45b6d89ae295b690f5ad12ca0bd38a]https://apnews.com/article/trump-mental-acuity-gaffe-biden-ronny-jackson-0d45b6d89ae295b690f5ad12ca0bd38a

[Motown Spartan]

From the Trump “rally” at a predominately black church in Detroit yesterday.

[Trapper Gus]

So they are all in white face

[Robert J Sakimano]

From the Trump “rally” at a predominately black church in Detroit yesterday.

I see Guest!!!

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