Harris Vs. Trump 2024. The battle to save America. Lets do this.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:in a shock to nobody, the republican/libertarian christian hero is a big fan of Hitler..

Trump: ‘I Need the Kind of Generals That Hitler Had’

Caution: Mainstream Media Link

Doesn't matter because most of the WW2 vets are dead and the Viet Nam era VFW crowd see Trump as a savior regardless of what he does or says. A lot like the Arab American community who forget all of Trump's anti-Arab rhetoric less than a decade ago.

Trapper Gus wrote:Last time I voted in person, 2018 I think, at my precient in Michigan, you filled out a slip with your name, Street address, and signed it; they checked you off with an ID at their computer and handed you the ballot.

I'd guess from the demographic that was at my early voting place, that Trump has an early advantage in my county (66% - 33% Trump in 2020).

Robert J Sakimano wrote:in a shock to nobody, the republican/libertarian christian hero is a big fan of Hitler..

Trump: ‘I Need the Kind of Generals That Hitler Had’

Caution: Mainstream Media Link

Ahh, Hitler's Generals.  Yes, Donald, they fall into pretty much 3 categories:  Those that tried to kill Hitler, those that were bad Generals and lost, or those that weren't really Generals at all, but rather sycophants. Some hit two, even three, of those categories.

It's almost like he hasn't got a clue about what he says.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:in a shock to nobody, the republican/libertarian christian hero is a big fan of Hitler..

Trump: ‘I Need the Kind of Generals That Hitler Had’

Caution: Mainstream Media Link

Let Trump be Trump!

Corinthians something something.

DWags wrote:Trump gropin minors at a donors diner?  Caught on film?  

Two things, one, probably not true.  Two, If it is, his base doesn’t care I’m sure the minor girl deserved it.  

Pics or it didn't happen

I've heard rumors of someone shopping around a story that would allegedly end his campaign if true but who the hell knows. There's so much misinformation out there right now

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

DWags wrote:Trump gropin minors at a donors diner?  Caught on film?  

Two things, one, probably not true.  Two, If it is, his base doesn’t care I’m sure the minor girl deserved it.  

Pics or it didn't happen

I've heard rumors of someone shopping around a story that would allegedly end his campaign if true but who the hell knows. There's so much misinformation out there right now

I don’t think you shop a true story 13 days before the election and with millions of votes already cast.

I honestly don't think there is ANYTHING that could end his campaign, and especially end the support of his cult.

MiamiSpartan wrote:I honestly don't think there is ANYTHING that could end his campaign, and especially end the support of his cult.

I agree, i was just saying what i heard. And now this came out but it's not anywhere near campaign ending.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/23/donald-trump-accuser-stacey-williams-jeffrey-epstein

MiamiSpartan wrote:I honestly don't think there is ANYTHING that could end his campaign, and especially end the support of his cult.

Agreed. Nothing will happen in the next 10 days that will change anything. For anyone. People know who they’re voting for.

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Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Pervis Muldoon wrote:

You make sense. But if we get Trump back in the White House, we will all be to blame. Kamala is a reasonable alternative. That’s all she should have to be. However, Trump is seen by people who should know better as a smart businessman who says harmless, silly things. There is no reason this should be close. We are all at fault.

No if Trump wins it’ll mostly be Kamala and Biden’s fault. Stop blaming voters and start blaming party leadership that keeps doing boneheaded shit. If she loses of course.

For instance, she’s doing a campaign event in Texas soon. Famous battleground state of Texas. That’s not my fault, that’s not your fault, that’s the democrats fault for relying on the same “strategists” that have been blowing these races by doing the same stupid shit for decades now. If she loses of course.

I actually agree with much of this. In the end, the candidate is responsible for the outcome. But I can’t get over the fact that so many people are willing to put that narcissistic rapist felon blob of excrement back in the White House.

Absentee ballot
Election date:
11/5/2024
Application received:
8/27/2024
Ballot sent:
9/23/2024
Ballot received:
10/16/2024

Pervis Muldoon wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
No if Trump wins it’ll mostly be Kamala and Biden’s fault. Stop blaming voters and start blaming party leadership that keeps doing boneheaded shit. If she loses of course.

For instance, she’s doing a campaign event in Texas soon. Famous battleground state of Texas. That’s not my fault, that’s not your fault, that’s the democrats fault for relying on the same “strategists” that have been blowing these races by doing the same stupid shit for decades now. If she loses of course.

I actually agree with much of this. In the end, the candidate is responsible for the outcome. But I can’t get over the fact that so many people are willing to put that narcissistic rapist felon blob of excrement back in the White House.

Harris campaigning in Texas isn't going to decide the election or sway any voters, just like nothing Trump says or does at this point.

Harris losing would be an indictment on America. Not on her. Or strategy. Or whatever.

There are people voting who aren't rational. Their votes count.

Pervis Muldoon wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
No if Trump wins it’ll mostly be Kamala and Biden’s fault. Stop blaming voters and start blaming party leadership that keeps doing boneheaded shit. If she loses of course.

For instance, she’s doing a campaign event in Texas soon. Famous battleground state of Texas. That’s not my fault, that’s not your fault, that’s the democrats fault for relying on the same “strategists” that have been blowing these races by doing the same stupid shit for decades now. If she loses of course.

I actually agree with much of this. In the end, the candidate is responsible for the outcome. But I can’t get over the fact that so many people are willing to put that narcissistic rapist felon blob of excrement back in the White House.

Seems to me that people that vote are responsible for the outcome, but then I believe in individual responsibility in response to media campaigns.

This seems to me to be a good breakdown of the "Arab" voting trends in Michigan & elsewhere.

Like everything in real life, it is complicated, however, its main message is that Gaza is not the main driver of the vote.

Breakdown of Arab Voting Blocks

There should be a net worth cut off on eligibility to vote or contribute to a campaign. Let’s take Elon Musk for example. He’s obviously built his empire on both parties being in control/power. At this point favoring one candidate over the other via contributions is clearly the purchase of corruption.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Pervis Muldoon wrote:

I actually agree with much of this. In the end, the candidate is responsible for the outcome. But I can’t get over the fact that so many people are willing to put that narcissistic rapist felon blob of excrement back in the White House.

Seems to me that people that vote are responsible for the outcome, but then I believe in individual responsibility in response to media campaigns.

It has nothing to do with personal responsibility. It has everything to do with you absolving your heroes of mistakes and blaming anyone else so that they are doomed to repeat them over and over again. Really, if Kamala were to lose, the Democrat bootlicker contingent will have a lot to do with it as well

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Seems to me that people that vote are responsible for the outcome, but then I believe in individual responsibility in response to media campaigns.

It has nothing to do with personal responsibility. It has everything to do with you absolving your heroes of mistakes and blaming anyone else so that they are doomed to repeat them over and over again. Really, if Kamala were to lose, the Democrat bootlicker contingent will have a lot to do with it as well

Seems like this is a good place to drop the star wars clip...

Trapper Gus wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
It has nothing to do with personal responsibility. It has everything to do with you absolving your heroes of mistakes and blaming anyone else so that they are doomed to repeat them over and over again. Really, if Kamala were to lose, the Democrat bootlicker contingent will have a lot to do with it as well

Seems like this is a good place to drop the star wars clip...

It’s really not. I know you’re just trying to be snarky but you don’t want to get into a Star Wars quibble with me. 

You see, the context of that scene starts with Luke admitting to Kylo ren that it was Luke’s failure that led Kylo down the dark path he ended up taking. Not the sith, not his parents, not the galactic voters, not any number of other factors that he could blame- he’s taking accountability for his own actions. Which is what I am telling you democrats need to learn to do when they fail. Instead we have people like you blaming everything and anyone else other than the candidate themselves.

Further, on a larger scale, about an hour earlier in that very movie Luke decries the failed structure set up by the Jedi, and clung to despite its massive failures. He’s able to step back and acknowledge that it’s the religion that failed to stop the sith from taking over. All sorts of things happened that could have prevented it, sure, but at the end of the day the power structure had to change and adapt to meet the prevailing threats. It didn’t, and the threats won. Luke, when the empire was vanquished, did try to rebuild the Jedi order. And it was this clinging to the past that led to his failure with Kylo. He realized this and stopped, instead deciding to destroy the Jedi order, which was the right thing to do to stop the cycle from happening again. 

You never see this though. You cling to democrats being perfect while the world around you burns. And if Kamala loses like Hilary did, it will be that clinging to failed ways of approaching things that is the cause of it.

kingstonlake wrote:There should be a net worth cut off on eligibility to vote or contribute to a campaign. Let’s take Elon Musk for example. He’s obviously built his empire on both parties being in control/power. At this point favoring one candidate over the other via contributions is clearly the purchase of corruption.

Oh huh. I was on board until I realized you were on the other side of the scale. I think we should prevent the Poors from voting. They clearly have bad judgement. Why should they help decide?

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Seems like this is a good place to drop the star wars clip...

It’s really not. I know you’re just trying to be snarky but you don’t want to get into a Star Wars quibble with me. 

You see, the context of that scene starts with Luke admitting to Kylo ren that it was Luke’s failure that led Kylo down the dark path he ended up taking. Not the sith, not his parents, not the galactic voters, not any number of other factors that he could blame- he’s taking accountability for his own actions. Which is what I am telling you democrats need to learn to do when they fail. Instead we have people like you blaming everything and anyone else other than the candidate themselves.

Further, on a larger scale, about an hour earlier in that very movie Luke decries the failed structure set up by the Jedi, and clung to despite its massive failures. He’s able to step back and acknowledge that it’s the religion that failed to stop the sith from taking over. All sorts of things happened that could have prevented it, sure, but at the end of the day the power structure had to change and adapt to meet the prevailing threats. It didn’t, and the threats won. Luke, when the empire was vanquished, did try to rebuild the Jedi order. And it was this clinging to the past that led to his failure with Kylo. He realized this and stopped, instead deciding to destroy the Jedi order, which was the right thing to do to stop the cycle from happening again. 

You never see this though. You cling to democrats being perfect while the world around you burns. And if Kamala loses like Hilary did, it will be that clinging to failed ways of approaching things that is the cause of it.

Wow!

Impressive!

(and I get dinged on here constantly for TL:DR posts, though I did read it)

Just a quibble, and you are likely right with all the Star Wars backstory except this, Luke attacks Ren during training because he perceives the dark side forming within Ren.  If allowing the potential Jedi to choose between the light or dark side is a failure of religion, I think that you are trying to abolish the concept of "free will" as it applies to sin, to use a more Christen based concept.

Star Wars is not a go to analogy for me, so the rest of what you are saying in its context is water off a duck as far as I'm concerned.

Your misguided ideas regarding people who fully support the Democratics over the other choices is still wrong, no matter if the expanding the Star Wars analogy to its full canon works or not.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Seems like this is a good place to drop the star wars clip...

It’s really not. I know you’re just trying to be snarky but you don’t want to get into a Star Wars quibble with me. 

You see, the context of that scene starts with Luke admitting to Kylo ren that it was Luke’s failure that led Kylo down the dark path he ended up taking. Not the sith, not his parents, not the galactic voters, not any number of other factors that he could blame- he’s taking accountability for his own actions. Which is what I am telling you democrats need to learn to do when they fail. Instead we have people like you blaming everything and anyone else other than the candidate themselves.

Further, on a larger scale, about an hour earlier in that very movie Luke decries the failed structure set up by the Jedi, and clung to despite its massive failures. He’s able to step back and acknowledge that it’s the religion that failed to stop the sith from taking over. All sorts of things happened that could have prevented it, sure, but at the end of the day the power structure had to change and adapt to meet the prevailing threats. It didn’t, and the threats won. Luke, when the empire was vanquished, did try to rebuild the Jedi order. And it was this clinging to the past that led to his failure with Kylo. He realized this and stopped, instead deciding to destroy the Jedi order, which was the right thing to do to stop the cycle from happening again. 

You never see this though. You cling to democrats being perfect while the world around you burns. And if Kamala loses like Hilary did, it will be that clinging to failed ways of approaching things that is the cause of it.

If Kamala does lose it will be due to clinging to failed messaging and failing to adapt to new threats. The problem is, I don't think anyone actually knows how to thwart Trump's strategy. Sure they get aggressive with him and hope for the best, relying on the good nature of American citizens. But if that fails, how exactly do you counter? The only thing I can think of is to create your own more attractive "cult of personality" and I'm not sure that's desirable.

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
It’s really not. I know you’re just trying to be snarky but you don’t want to get into a Star Wars quibble with me. 

You see, the context of that scene starts with Luke admitting to Kylo ren that it was Luke’s failure that led Kylo down the dark path he ended up taking. Not the sith, not his parents, not the galactic voters, not any number of other factors that he could blame- he’s taking accountability for his own actions. Which is what I am telling you democrats need to learn to do when they fail. Instead we have people like you blaming everything and anyone else other than the candidate themselves.

Further, on a larger scale, about an hour earlier in that very movie Luke decries the failed structure set up by the Jedi, and clung to despite its massive failures. He’s able to step back and acknowledge that it’s the religion that failed to stop the sith from taking over. All sorts of things happened that could have prevented it, sure, but at the end of the day the power structure had to change and adapt to meet the prevailing threats. It didn’t, and the threats won. Luke, when the empire was vanquished, did try to rebuild the Jedi order. And it was this clinging to the past that led to his failure with Kylo. He realized this and stopped, instead deciding to destroy the Jedi order, which was the right thing to do to stop the cycle from happening again. 

You never see this though. You cling to democrats being perfect while the world around you burns. And if Kamala loses like Hilary did, it will be that clinging to failed ways of approaching things that is the cause of it.

If Kamala does lose it will be due to clinging to failed messaging and failing to adapt to new threats. The problem is, I don't think anyone actually knows how to thwart Trump's strategy. Sure they get aggressive with him and hope for the best, relying on the good nature of American citizens. But if that fails, how exactly do you counter? The only thing I can think of is to create your own more attractive "cult of personality" and I'm not sure that's desirable.

Failed messaging?
Like what? I mean…what are they overlooking?
What is the key?
This is all just laughable arm chair analysis before the game has even started.
I mean…if Harris wins, is everyone here going to eat crow and say she did a great job?

Trump’s messaging appeals to racists. How do you combat that? I mean…you can’t. They don’t care if you call them racists. Do you guys seriously not understand that?

Trapper Gus wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
It’s really not. I know you’re just trying to be snarky but you don’t want to get into a Star Wars quibble with me. 

You see, the context of that scene starts with Luke admitting to Kylo ren that it was Luke’s failure that led Kylo down the dark path he ended up taking. Not the sith, not his parents, not the galactic voters, not any number of other factors that he could blame- he’s taking accountability for his own actions. Which is what I am telling you democrats need to learn to do when they fail. Instead we have people like you blaming everything and anyone else other than the candidate themselves.

Further, on a larger scale, about an hour earlier in that very movie Luke decries the failed structure set up by the Jedi, and clung to despite its massive failures. He’s able to step back and acknowledge that it’s the religion that failed to stop the sith from taking over. All sorts of things happened that could have prevented it, sure, but at the end of the day the power structure had to change and adapt to meet the prevailing threats. It didn’t, and the threats won. Luke, when the empire was vanquished, did try to rebuild the Jedi order. And it was this clinging to the past that led to his failure with Kylo. He realized this and stopped, instead deciding to destroy the Jedi order, which was the right thing to do to stop the cycle from happening again. 

You never see this though. You cling to democrats being perfect while the world around you burns. And if Kamala loses like Hilary did, it will be that clinging to failed ways of approaching things that is the cause of it.

Wow!

Impressive!

(and I get dinged on here constantly for TL:DR posts, though I did read it)

Just a quibble, and you are likely right with all the Star Wars backstory except this, Luke attacks Ren during training because he perceives the dark side forming within Ren.  If allowing the potential Jedi to choose between the light or dark side is a failure of religion, I think that you are trying to abolish the concept of "free will" as it applies to sin, to use a more Christen based concept.

Star Wars is not a go to analogy for me, so the rest of what you are saying in its context is water off a duck as far as I'm concerned.

Your misguided ideas regarding people who fully support the Democratics over the other choices is still wrong, no matter if the expanding the Star Wars analogy to its full canon works or not.

Theres a difference between “fully supporting” and “turning them into perfect deities in my head”, that’s your problem. They fuck up. A lot. Too much. They need to learn from the fuck ups instead of pretending it wasn’t a fuck up at all. Hillary fucked up. It isn’t “stein voters” that caused her to lose. It’s her not winning over those stein voters for a variety of different reasons. 

Actually, re the first paragraph, I would probably argue that Luke is moreso doing away with the concept for light and dark entirely, or at least such a strict line between the two. Who says that there is light and dark? The Jedi do. the light, from the Jedi orders perspective, being the emotionless, attachmentless, monk lifestyle that their religion adopted with the dark being the version of the force that gives fully into emotions. There are force users that float between the two, including Luke who was hardly a strict Jedi. 

And what caused anakin to fall to the dark side in the first place moreso than the adherence to a strict religion that made him try to hide that he had a pregnant wife that he was afraid of losing? A fear that was correct, but only correct because he felt that he had to try to save her outside of the bounds of the Jedi instead of being able to openly discuss his situation and his fears

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
It’s really not. I know you’re just trying to be snarky but you don’t want to get into a Star Wars quibble with me. 

You see, the context of that scene starts with Luke admitting to Kylo ren that it was Luke’s failure that led Kylo down the dark path he ended up taking. Not the sith, not his parents, not the galactic voters, not any number of other factors that he could blame- he’s taking accountability for his own actions. Which is what I am telling you democrats need to learn to do when they fail. Instead we have people like you blaming everything and anyone else other than the candidate themselves.

Further, on a larger scale, about an hour earlier in that very movie Luke decries the failed structure set up by the Jedi, and clung to despite its massive failures. He’s able to step back and acknowledge that it’s the religion that failed to stop the sith from taking over. All sorts of things happened that could have prevented it, sure, but at the end of the day the power structure had to change and adapt to meet the prevailing threats. It didn’t, and the threats won. Luke, when the empire was vanquished, did try to rebuild the Jedi order. And it was this clinging to the past that led to his failure with Kylo. He realized this and stopped, instead deciding to destroy the Jedi order, which was the right thing to do to stop the cycle from happening again. 

You never see this though. You cling to democrats being perfect while the world around you burns. And if Kamala loses like Hilary did, it will be that clinging to failed ways of approaching things that is the cause of it.

If Kamala does lose it will be due to clinging to failed messaging and failing to adapt to new threats. The problem is, I don't think anyone actually knows how to thwart Trump's strategy. Sure they get aggressive with him and hope for the best, relying on the good nature of American citizens. But if that fails, how exactly do you counter? The only thing I can think of is to create your own more attractive "cult of personality" and I'm not sure that's desirable.

If Harris loses the EC vote, it will be because of voters in a handful of states.

The whole EC idea was to block the popular will and ensure that the slave states could block the abolition of slavery.

Thus, we see it being used to block the candidate with the more popular positions on the issues via the built-in and built-up inequality of the one person one vote principle.

It is still a difficulty with the concept of self-government, too, though the majority of the people stand on the side of the angels, based upon the popular votes in elections.

Why posters on this board see winning the popular vote but not the EC as a failure of the candidate instead of a failure of the system seems backwards to me. It is a failure of the system, or if you are in the "winning side minority" a wonderful feature of the system.

Beyond that, posters seem totally oblivious to the years and years of hard work the side that wants a dictator (under their control, they think) have put into reaching this point. The propaganda machines they created to lead people to vote for their side took years and the overturning of various laws to create.

This blaming the candidate idea, as far as I can see, is just another bit of propaganda that people eat up to make themselves feel better but has less than a 25% truth value. Also blaming people who fully support the candidate and/or the Party is another concept with very limited truth value.

The problem is the structures that are in place which are the root cause of what people believe, how people vote, and how the votes are counted.

There is no candidate who will do a much better job of controlling the narrative as Harris has done, so that dog will not hunt, and the Democratics who chose her, over my objections I might add, being a Biden partisan, are not the problem either.

NigelUno wrote:

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

If Kamala does lose it will be due to clinging to failed messaging and failing to adapt to new threats.  The problem is, I don't think anyone actually knows how to thwart Trump's strategy.  Sure they get aggressive with him and hope for the best, relying on the good nature of American citizens.  But if that fails, how exactly do you counter?  The only thing I can think of is to create your own more attractive "cult of personality" and I'm not sure that's desirable.

Failed messaging?  
Like what?   I mean…what are they overlooking?
What is the key?
This is all just laughable arm chair analysis before the game has even started.
I mean…if Harris wins, is everyone here going to eat crow and say she did a great job?  

Trump’s messaging appeals to racists.  How do you combat that?  I mean…you can’t.  They don’t care if you call them racists.  Do you guys seriously not understand that?  

It’s all just “if” she loses. If she doesn’t then we’re just wasting time. Which is a hallmark of posting anyway. 

But you combat it by spending the last 4 years doing *something* to try to win over the voters that you know ahead of time are a weak spot. Like “hey you fucking liberal wackos, vote for democrats because the other option is baaaad” is clearly not getting it done. But we just keep approaching every election with that same message hoping that it’ll work one more time instead of actually doing anything with power that would make them want to vote for you. Same thing for any other group.

But it’s all a moot point if she wins

TravelinMan wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:There should be a net worth cut off on eligibility to vote or contribute to a campaign. Let’s take Elon Musk for example. He’s obviously built his empire on both parties being in control/power. At this point favoring one candidate over the other via contributions is clearly the purchase of corruption.

Oh huh. I was on board until I realized you were on the other side of the scale. I think we should prevent the Poors from voting. They clearly have bad judgement. Why should they help decide?

You kinda flew over the contribution part. But whatever.

As Bob has repeatedly told us, this is what democracy is fighting against.

kingstonlake wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Oh huh. I was on board until I realized you were on the other side of the scale. I think we should prevent the Poors from voting. They clearly have bad judgement. Why should they help decide?

You kinda flew over the contribution part. But whatever.

Ol’ Trav is just continuing his lifelong mission of trying to convince strangers on the internet that there are “Poors” and that he is most definitely not one of them.

Pervis Muldoon wrote:

kingstonlake wrote:

You kinda flew over the contribution part. But whatever.

Ol’ Trav is just continuing his lifelong mission of trying to convince strangers on the internet that there are “Poors” and that he is most definitely not one of them.

Are the Ewoks the Poors? This is all so confusing.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

NigelUno wrote:

Failed messaging?  
Like what?   I mean…what are they overlooking?
What is the key?
This is all just laughable arm chair analysis before the game has even started.
I mean…if Harris wins, is everyone here going to eat crow and say she did a great job?  

Trump’s messaging appeals to racists.  How do you combat that?  I mean…you can’t.  They don’t care if you call them racists.  Do you guys seriously not understand that?  

It’s all just “if” she loses. If she doesn’t then we’re just wasting time. Which is a hallmark of posting anyway. 

But you combat it by spending the last 4 years doing *something* to try to win over the voters that you know ahead of time are a weak spot. Like “hey you fucking liberal wackos, vote for democrats because the other option is baaaad” is clearly not getting it done. But we just keep approaching every election with that same message hoping that it’ll work one more time instead of actually doing anything with power that would make them want to vote for you. Same thing for any other group.

But it’s all a moot point if she wins

Having always been a policy sort of guy I have found appealing to emotional triggers hard to understand, however you are right, arguing that the policies will be better so you should vote for X does not win arguments.

Needed to tune in emotionally to the other people and get them feeling that you are feeling what they are feeling is good salesmanship, but people may be too far apart for that.

3 more votes for Kamala in Florida today. My wife and I went down to pick my daughter up from her dorm to take her to vote.

One of the nice things about early voting (down here at least), is that you don't have to go to a specific polling place. You can go anywhere in the county, so we all voted about 20+ miles or so away from our home precinct, since my daughter doesn't have a car on campus.

Maybe about a 15 minute wait. Longest I've waited in years. I usually go to early voting around 9-10am, figuring people that go before work have come and gone by then. But today it was around lunchtime, as we had to work it around my daughter's class schedule. No big deal, though. All.smooth. a couple idiots outside the polling place, but no one taking advantage of Florida's open carry law (at least not overtly), so that was good.

Floyd Robertson wrote:As Bob has repeatedly told us, this is what democracy is fighting against.

That's depressing. It's also the issue. There is no way to combat that.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Wow!

Impressive!

(and I get dinged on here constantly for TL:DR posts, though I did read it)

Just a quibble, and you are likely right with all the Star Wars backstory except this, Luke attacks Ren during training because he perceives the dark side forming within Ren.  If allowing the potential Jedi to choose between the light or dark side is a failure of religion, I think that you are trying to abolish the concept of "free will" as it applies to sin, to use a more Christen based concept.

Star Wars is not a go to analogy for me, so the rest of what you are saying in its context is water off a duck as far as I'm concerned.

Your misguided ideas regarding people who fully support the Democratics over the other choices is still wrong, no matter if the expanding the Star Wars analogy to its full canon works or not.

Theres a difference between “fully supporting” and “turning them into perfect deities in my head”, that’s your problem. They fuck up. A lot. Too much. They need to learn from the fuck ups instead of pretending it wasn’t a fuck up at all. Hillary fucked up. It isn’t “stein voters” that caused her to lose. It’s her not winning over those stein voters for a variety of different reasons. 

Actually, re the first paragraph, I would probably argue that Luke is moreso doing away with the concept for light and dark entirely, or at least such a strict line between the two. Who says that there is light and dark? The Jedi do. the light, from the Jedi orders perspective, being the emotionless, attachmentless, monk lifestyle that their religion adopted with the dark being the version of the force that gives fully into emotions. There are force users that float between the two, including Luke who was hardly a strict Jedi. 

And what caused anakin to fall to the dark side in the first place moreso than the adherence to a strict religion that made him try to hide that he had a pregnant wife that he was afraid of losing? A fear that was correct, but only correct because he felt that he had to try to save her outside of the bounds of the Jedi instead of being able to openly discuss his situation and his fears

It's sort of funny to combining opera with rl, so I'll skip that part.  You are the smartest guy in the thread on that one.

Speaking of you, it is only in your head that me, or anyone else, has deitfied anyone.  I do object to those of you who deitfy politicians  as devils, such as those who blame Biden for the slaughter in Gaza.

To me every situation in rl is much more complex than that, and the results anybody in any situation achieves has to be measured against what was possible, not some pie in the sky idealized result.

I admire what Biden accomplished in his term, both when he had a cooperative Congress & when he didn't, and yes, think that he was the smartest guy in the room for the situations he was in.

InTenSity wrote:

Floyd Robertson wrote:As Bob has repeatedly told us, this is what democracy is fighting against.

That's depressing. It's also the issue. There is no way to combat that.

I think they edit all the responses they get so that only the funny ones are shown...

NigelUno wrote:

sεяεηιτλ wrote:

If Kamala does lose it will be due to clinging to failed messaging and failing to adapt to new threats. The problem is, I don't think anyone actually knows how to thwart Trump's strategy. Sure they get aggressive with him and hope for the best, relying on the good nature of American citizens. But if that fails, how exactly do you counter? The only thing I can think of is to create your own more attractive "cult of personality" and I'm not sure that's desirable.

Failed messaging?
Like what? I mean…what are they overlooking?
What is the key?
This is all just laughable arm chair analysis before the game has even started.
I mean…if Harris wins, is everyone here going to eat crow and say she did a great job?

Trump’s messaging appeals to racists. How do you combat that? I mean…you can’t. They don’t care if you call them racists. Do you guys seriously not understand that?

Failed messaging isn't exactly "armchair", it's obvious. Trump dominates the media attention for good or bad, besides a a few weeks after she announced, Kamala has t broken through the wall of shit trump erected. The answer to it is not clear, you can infer from a loss though that messaging failed in some way.