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Re: Star Wars
by Watch Out Pylon! 12/13/2019, 3:42 pm
So all you can see is my head? Can you see this? Whoooooo-P!
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Re: Star Wars
by steveschneider 12/13/2019, 4:55 pm
Watch Out Pylon! wrote:
So all you can see is my head? Can you see this? Whoooooo-P!
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Re: Star Wars
by Turtleneck 12/14/2019, 9:43 pm
steveschneider wrote:I remember as a kid when the death star blew up way back in the 70's the entire theater was hooting and hollering like it was a football game. It was unreal. That to me was the real magic of that first film.
Wait. I thought you were in your early 30s tops. WTF?
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Re: Star Wars
by MiamiSpartan 12/19/2019, 10:11 pm
Saw the new one tonight. Always a fun experience with my daughter and nephews. I liked it, but I usually do like these. I'm sure most of you will hate it, as you usually do. To each their own. To me it's just fun, mindless entertainment.
- Spoiler:
- Damn, how I wanted to do one of my favorite Homer Simpson moments when we were walking out of the theater.
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Re: Star Wars
by steveschneider 12/19/2019, 10:23 pm
Going to go see it soon my level of expectations are in the toilet but what the hell. Will see it and report back.
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Re: Star Wars
by Other Teams Pursuing That 12/20/2019, 1:40 pm
Critics: rotten, fanboys: fresh
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_rise_of_skywalker
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_rise_of_skywalker
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Re: Star Wars
by tGreenWay 12/20/2019, 1:56 pm
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Critics: rotten, fanboys: fresh
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_rise_of_skywalker
Shocking.
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Re: Star Wars
by steveschneider 12/20/2019, 1:56 pm
Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Critics: rotten, fanboys: fresh
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_rise_of_skywalker
Half the fun is engaging in the arguments afterwards.
Post George Lucas in the Disney era they've had one really good film, a few so so ones and a couple of really bad ones. That's not a good percentage.
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Re: Star Wars
by Watch Out Pylon! 12/20/2019, 2:31 pm
Robot Chicken did Star Wars better than Star Wars.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLACBB157C8DE5B884
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLACBB157C8DE5B884
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Re: Star Wars
by Cameron 12/20/2019, 6:26 pm
Saw it this afternoon.
- Spoiler:
- I really enjoyed it. But then again, I liked pretty much every single Star Wars movie the first time, prequels included (I was young and foolish). There were some cheesy moments, and lots of fan service, but that's all I really wanted after The Last Jedi (which I also liked the first time, but now despise).
Frankly, they never should have made 7, 8, and 9 if they weren't gonna do it in the 80s. Should've just let the originals and prequels stand for themselves and started fresh. Everything that happened in 7, 8, and 9 basically rendered the original trilogy a pointless appetizer, plot-wise. But I got to see the twin suns of Tatooine a few more times, so that was nice.
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Re: Star Wars
by Travis of the Cosmos 12/21/2019, 8:32 pm
Cameron wrote:Saw it this afternoon.
- Spoiler:
Frankly, they never should have made 7, 8, and 9 if they weren't gonna do it in the 80s. Should've just let the originals and prequels stand for themselves and started fresh. Everything that happened in 7, 8, and 9 basically rendered the original trilogy a pointless appetizer, plot-wise. But I got to see the twin suns of Tatooine a few more times, so that was nice.
- Spoiler:
I didn't like it very much tbh. I guess it was fine. I don't know. It was pretty whatever. The same thing as force awakens pretty much. Conversely, i really liked the last jedi, maybe my favorite star wars movie ever. I guess that's why I didn't like this one much. That one tried to take it in a completely different direction, but this one just said "no, just kidding, we're going back to the same old tropes you know and love so that you don't get mad again". For instance- Rey being the emperors granddaughter... was that really necessary? Did it actually matter to the plot, like, at all? Couldn't we have just left it at "shes some nobody that does force things and that's cool."
I thought it was cool when the whole universe coalesced at the end at the fight. But, I feel like the whole movie would have been better if the 2 hour plot leading to that was about uniting those various differing groups that have been splintered since the empire blew up their democratic government, rather than they just sort of show up out of thin air at the end. The last jedi set it up pretty perfectly for that to be this movie, but they insisted on making it mostly chasing a map for the second time in three movies instead.
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Re: Star Wars
by Cameron 12/22/2019, 10:19 am
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Cameron wrote:Saw it this afternoon.
- Spoiler:
Frankly, they never should have made 7, 8, and 9 if they weren't gonna do it in the 80s. Should've just let the originals and prequels stand for themselves and started fresh. Everything that happened in 7, 8, and 9 basically rendered the original trilogy a pointless appetizer, plot-wise. But I got to see the twin suns of Tatooine a few more times, so that was nice.
- Spoiler:
I didn't like it very much tbh. I guess it was fine. I don't know. It was pretty whatever. The same thing as force awakens pretty much. Conversely, i really liked the last jedi, maybe my favorite star wars movie ever. I guess that's why I didn't like this one much. That one tried to take it in a completely different direction, but this one just said "no, just kidding, we're going back to the same old tropes you know and love so that you don't get mad again". For instance- Rey being the emperors granddaughter... was that really necessary? Did it actually matter to the plot, like, at all? Couldn't we have just left it at "shes some nobody that does force things and that's cool."
I thought it was cool when the whole universe coalesced at the end at the fight. But, I feel like the whole movie would have been better if the 2 hour plot leading to that was about uniting those various differing groups that have been splintered since the empire blew up their democratic government, rather than they just sort of show up out of thin air at the end. The last jedi set it up pretty perfectly for that to be this movie, but they insisted on making it mostly chasing a map for the second time in three movies instead.
- Spoiler:
- I disagree strongly about The Last Jedi. You say that set this one up, but did it? Consider the position the Resistance was in when TLJ started, and the position it was in when TLJ ended. How different were they? I'd argue that TLJ didn't really advance the plot of the sequel trilogy in any meaningful way. TLJ starts, Resistance is outnumbered and outgunned. TLJ ends, Resistance is even more outnumbered and outgunned, plus Luke is dead. Did literally anything that happened in TLJ matter in the context of the whole trilogy? I would say mostly no. Just a long chase, the introduction to fuel considerations into the Star Wars universe, and a long, pointless B plot on the casino planet to find some codebreaker who is supposedly indispensable, but they never find him, so it didn't matter. Throw in a little unnecessary Holdo secrecy (no logical reason not to share the plan, or at least the existence of A plan, with subordinates, other than lazy storytelling) and a maneuver that theoretically breaks in universe space warfare (just do that every time, one ship can destroy pretty much anything at light speed). Bad movie.
Some stuff I've read indicates that the Palpatine stuff was planned from the start. If that is indeed the case, TLJ should have spent less time on "subverting expectations," and more time on actual storytelling.
Basically, the whole trilogy was a disjointed mess because Kathleen Kennedy is a moron who didn't think it was necessary to have a solid plot for the entire trilogy established before they started filming 7. JJ made some questionable choices in 7, but then Rian spent most of 8 telling the audience none of it mattered anyway. Who is Snoke? Doesn't matter, he died like a bitch. Who are Rey's parents? Doesn't matter, they're nobodies, and fuck you for believing it was important. What happened to our hero Luke? He's old and bitter and irrelevant, and also he's dead now.
I guess I'd sum up my strong preference for 9 over 8 by saying that I feel much more inclined to like a film when I don't feel like the director is criticizing me for caring about the in-movie universe. What kind of person goes to see the 8th movie of a series hoping that it "kills the past" of the first 7?
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Re: Star Wars
by steveschneider 12/22/2019, 2:15 pm
Spoiler free review I thought it was top notch entertainment and made up for the crappy last film. I hated the last one and this made up for it.
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Re: Star Wars
by tGreenWay 12/22/2019, 3:18 pm
steveschneider wrote:Spoiler free review I thought it was top notch entertainment and made up for the crappy last film. I hated the last one and this made up for it.
But wasn’t Yoda great? A person would have to be a fool to hate Yoda. A fool!
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Re: Star Wars
by Travis of the Cosmos 12/22/2019, 3:41 pm
Cameron wrote:Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
- Spoiler:
I didn't like it very much tbh. I guess it was fine. I don't know. It was pretty whatever. The same thing as force awakens pretty much. Conversely, i really liked the last jedi, maybe my favorite star wars movie ever. I guess that's why I didn't like this one much. That one tried to take it in a completely different direction, but this one just said "no, just kidding, we're going back to the same old tropes you know and love so that you don't get mad again". For instance- Rey being the emperors granddaughter... was that really necessary? Did it actually matter to the plot, like, at all? Couldn't we have just left it at "shes some nobody that does force things and that's cool."
I thought it was cool when the whole universe coalesced at the end at the fight. But, I feel like the whole movie would have been better if the 2 hour plot leading to that was about uniting those various differing groups that have been splintered since the empire blew up their democratic government, rather than they just sort of show up out of thin air at the end. The last jedi set it up pretty perfectly for that to be this movie, but they insisted on making it mostly chasing a map for the second time in three movies instead.
- Spoiler:
Some stuff I've read indicates that the Palpatine stuff was planned from the start. If that is indeed the case, TLJ should have spent less time on "subverting expectations," and more time on actual storytelling.
Basically, the whole trilogy was a disjointed mess because Kathleen Kennedy is a moron who didn't think it was necessary to have a solid plot for the entire trilogy established before they started filming 7. JJ made some questionable choices in 7, but then Rian spent most of 8 telling the audience none of it mattered anyway. Who is Snoke? Doesn't matter, he died like a bitch. Who are Rey's parents? Doesn't matter, they're nobodies, and fuck you for believing it was important. What happened to our hero Luke? He's old and bitter and irrelevant, and also he's dead now.
I guess I'd sum up my strong preference for 9 over 8 by saying that I feel much more inclined to like a film when I don't feel like the director is criticizing me for caring about the in-movie universe. What kind of person goes to see the 8th movie of a series hoping that it "kills the past" of the first 7?
- Spoiler:
- Well, anything that happened in the last jedi didn't matter because in the first five minutes of this movie they said "lol jk nothing in that movie counted" so that's not really fair. I think that was mostly in response to angry nerds who just want their space ninja movies to be all the same.
I do think it could have been a much cooler direction, and extremely consequential, but that "set up" wasn't taken. It was just thrown out. They sort of ended up in the same place the last jedi was going with the whole galaxy fighting against the baddies, but like i said in the last post, for me its about how they get there. The last jedi was more focused on the people in the universe in my view, with the conversations about things like who is financing nonstop war, the downtrodden that are stomped on by it, the fact that literally anyone can have these magic powers and not just a couple of families, etc. That could have led to a cool movie here about people rising up against their first order oppressors, groups uniting, that kind of stuff and still ended up in the exact same place this movie ended up.
Instead, you're right that the last jedi did nothing for the series of movies, but that's because it was basically stomped on as soon as possible. They took it and said yeah, never mind all of that stuff, we're just going to make the same movie that you want and we'll throw all of the nostalgia at you that you can take. Which left me just feeling like "yeah, i just saw another star wars movie." which is fine, i guess. its just whatever meh to me. I like the idea of exploring different themes and maybe more of a reflection of real life society, which i think where the last jedi was trying to go. But at the end of the day, like Luke says in that movie "what do you think im just going to grab a sword and face down all the baddies myself" well yeah, i think that's what people want you to do, so that's what they're going to do even if it's just the same old thing.
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Re: Star Wars
by Cameron 12/22/2019, 4:54 pm
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:Cameron wrote:
- Spoiler:
Some stuff I've read indicates that the Palpatine stuff was planned from the start. If that is indeed the case, TLJ should have spent less time on "subverting expectations," and more time on actual storytelling.
Basically, the whole trilogy was a disjointed mess because Kathleen Kennedy is a moron who didn't think it was necessary to have a solid plot for the entire trilogy established before they started filming 7. JJ made some questionable choices in 7, but then Rian spent most of 8 telling the audience none of it mattered anyway. Who is Snoke? Doesn't matter, he died like a bitch. Who are Rey's parents? Doesn't matter, they're nobodies, and fuck you for believing it was important. What happened to our hero Luke? He's old and bitter and irrelevant, and also he's dead now.
I guess I'd sum up my strong preference for 9 over 8 by saying that I feel much more inclined to like a film when I don't feel like the director is criticizing me for caring about the in-movie universe. What kind of person goes to see the 8th movie of a series hoping that it "kills the past" of the first 7?
- Spoiler:
I do think it could have been a much cooler direction, and extremely consequential, but that "set up" wasn't taken. It was just thrown out. They sort of ended up in the same place the last jedi was going with the whole galaxy fighting against the baddies, but like i said in the last post, for me its about how they get there. The last jedi was more focused on the people in the universe in my view, with the conversations about things like who is financing nonstop war, the downtrodden that are stomped on by it, the fact that literally anyone can have these magic powers and not just a couple of families, etc. That could have led to a cool movie here about people rising up against their first order oppressors, groups uniting, that kind of stuff and still ended up in the exact same place this movie ended up.
Instead, you're right that the last jedi did nothing for the series of movies, but that's because it was basically stomped on as soon as possible. They took it and said yeah, never mind all of that stuff, we're just going to make the same movie that you want and we'll throw all of the nostalgia at you that you can take. Which left me just feeling like "yeah, i just saw another star wars movie." which is fine, i guess. its just whatever meh to me. I like the idea of exploring different themes and maybe more of a reflection of real life society, which i think where the last jedi was trying to go. But at the end of the day, like Luke says in that movie "what do you think im just going to grab a sword and face down all the baddies myself" well yeah, i think that's what people want you to do, so that's what they're going to do even if it's just the same old thing.
- Spoiler:
- Pure speculation on my part, but I think that as much as the disregarding of the events in 8 may have been a reaction to the fanboy response, it was perhaps equally JJ Abrams giving a little fuck you to Rian Johnson for him shitting on so much of what JJ set up in 7. Like I said, pure speculation.
"The last jedi was more focused on the people in the universe in my view, with the conversations about things like who is financing nonstop war, the downtrodden that are stomped on by it, the fact that literally anyone can have these magic powers and not just a couple of families, etc."
Things like how and by whom war is financed, to me, harkens back to the trade embargo shit from Phantom Menace. Do people watch westerns for discussions of the sociopolitical implications of old west and commentary on how the saloons get their supplies? Hell no, they go to see cowboys ride horses and shoot shit. I'm all for exploring every aspect of the Star Wars galaxy, but that's what spinoffs are for, not part 8 of 9.
The last bit about "anyone can have these powers," I've seen that invoked as though that was some groundbreaking notion in TLJ, and that irks me to no end. In the prequel trilogy, we see dozens and dozens of Jedi,
almost none of them Skywalkers. In fact, it is made quite clear that Jedi are forbidden from marrying or having children, so we can safely assume that virtually none of the Jedi we see had Jedi parents. This has not been a novel idea in Star Wars for literally decades.
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Re: Star Wars
by steveschneider 12/22/2019, 6:18 pm
tGreenWay wrote:steveschneider wrote:Spoiler free review I thought it was top notch entertainment and made up for the crappy last film. I hated the last one and this made up for it.
But wasn’t Yoda great? A person would have to be a fool to hate Yoda. A fool!
And I loved the comic relief we got from the adorable little droid.
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Re: Star Wars
by steveschneider 12/22/2019, 6:28 pm
Cameron wrote:Travis of the Cosmos wrote:
- Spoiler:
I didn't like it very much tbh. I guess it was fine. I don't know. It was pretty whatever. The same thing as force awakens pretty much. Conversely, i really liked the last jedi, maybe my favorite star wars movie ever. I guess that's why I didn't like this one much. That one tried to take it in a completely different direction, but this one just said "no, just kidding, we're going back to the same old tropes you know and love so that you don't get mad again". For instance- Rey being the emperors granddaughter... was that really necessary? Did it actually matter to the plot, like, at all? Couldn't we have just left it at "shes some nobody that does force things and that's cool."
I thought it was cool when the whole universe coalesced at the end at the fight. But, I feel like the whole movie would have been better if the 2 hour plot leading to that was about uniting those various differing groups that have been splintered since the empire blew up their democratic government, rather than they just sort of show up out of thin air at the end. The last jedi set it up pretty perfectly for that to be this movie, but they insisted on making it mostly chasing a map for the second time in three movies instead.
- Spoiler:
Some stuff I've read indicates that the Palpatine stuff was planned from the start. If that is indeed the case, TLJ should have spent less time on "subverting expectations," and more time on actual storytelling.
Basically, the whole trilogy was a disjointed mess because Kathleen Kennedy is a moron who didn't think it was necessary to have a solid plot for the entire trilogy established before they started filming 7. JJ made some questionable choices in 7, but then Rian spent most of 8 telling the audience none of it mattered anyway. Who is Snoke? Doesn't matter, he died like a bitch. Who are Rey's parents? Doesn't matter, they're nobodies, and fuck you for believing it was important. What happened to our hero Luke? He's old and bitter and irrelevant, and also he's dead now.
I guess I'd sum up my strong preference for 9 over 8 by saying that I feel much more inclined to like a film when I don't feel like the director is criticizing me for caring about the in-movie universe. What kind of person goes to see the 8th movie of a series hoping that it "kills the past" of the first 7?
Damn Cameron, you could be the next Gene Siskel. That’s a good take.
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Re: Star Wars
by tGreenWay 12/22/2019, 7:15 pm
steveschneider wrote:Cameron wrote:
- Spoiler:
Some stuff I've read indicates that the Palpatine stuff was planned from the start. If that is indeed the case, TLJ should have spent less time on "subverting expectations," and more time on actual storytelling.
Basically, the whole trilogy was a disjointed mess because Kathleen Kennedy is a moron who didn't think it was necessary to have a solid plot for the entire trilogy established before they started filming 7. JJ made some questionable choices in 7, but then Rian spent most of 8 telling the audience none of it mattered anyway. Who is Snoke? Doesn't matter, he died like a bitch. Who are Rey's parents? Doesn't matter, they're nobodies, and fuck you for believing it was important. What happened to our hero Luke? He's old and bitter and irrelevant, and also he's dead now.
I guess I'd sum up my strong preference for 9 over 8 by saying that I feel much more inclined to like a film when I don't feel like the director is criticizing me for caring about the in-movie universe. What kind of person goes to see the 8th movie of a series hoping that it "kills the past" of the first 7?
Damn Cameron, you could be the next Gene Siskel. That’s a good take.
Both those guys are dead, Steve. You’re saying Cameron’s a dead man.
The Steve & Cameron war continues, and it just got even nastier.
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Re: Star Wars
by steveschneider 12/23/2019, 8:21 am
I gave the new Star Wars a little thought and will weigh in on the Travis vs Cameron debate on episode eight in a little bit.
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Re: Star Wars
by steveschneider 12/23/2019, 10:17 am
- Some More Thoughts:
So I gave the movie a little thought and the end battle was pretty ridiculous and confusing. So it was always the Emperor's plan to have both of them show up in the chamber or just Rey? He said that he always wanted her to live and then he bought out that shit that if she struck him down he'd take over her soul and rule the universe. And then when Ben shows up he sucks both of their powers and becomes a more powerful version of his old self? So wast hat the plan to get them both together and suck out their powers? And then Ben dies after he heals Rey, how come she didn't seem near death when she healed him?
Regarding episode 8, I agree with Cameron's take that it was just stupid to take the series in that direction for an episode and then just pull it back on course for 9. I do think the series needs some fresh shit though after they closed the book on the Sky Walker saga. I think Kennedy would be the right director to take it another direction going forth.
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Re: Star Wars
by Cameron 12/23/2019, 10:40 am
steveschneider wrote:
- Some More Thoughts:
So I gave the movie a little thought and the end battle was pretty ridiculous and confusing. So it was always the Emperor's plan to have both of them show up in the chamber or just Rey? He said that he always wanted her to live and then he bought out that shit that if she struck him down he'd take over her soul and rule the universe. And then when Ben shows up he sucks both of their powers and becomes a more powerful version of his old self? So wast hat the plan to get them both together and suck out their powers? And then Ben dies after he heals Rey, how come she didn't seem near death when she healed him?
Regarding episode 8, I agree with Cameron's take that it was just stupid to take the series in that direction for an episode and then just pull it back on course for 9. I do think the series needs some fresh shit though after they closed the book on the Sky Walker saga. I think Kennedy would be the right director to take it another direction going forth.
- Spoiler:
- It's unclear exactly what the deal was with Palpatine's plan. I'd need to see it again, probably a few times. My impression was/is that he set it up so that he would win pretty much no matter what. Either Kylo kills Rey and serves as Palpatine's new Vader, Rey comes alone and he gets her to strike him down, or they both come and he sucks their life out to fully regenerate himself. The only reason he didn't win is that he didn't account for her learning the light side version of whatever force technique that allows him to channel all the past generations of sith or whatever. I think.
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Re: Star Wars
by Floyd Robertson 12/23/2019, 10:47 am
Maybe I'll go see it tomorrow. I just wanted to let you guys know I appreciate your use of the the spoiler tag.
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Re: Star Wars
by steveschneider 12/23/2019, 10:51 am
Floyd Robertson wrote:Maybe I'll go see it tomorrow. I just wanted to let you guys know I appreciate your use of the the spoiler tag.
Floyd Robertson wrote:Maybe I'll go see it tomorrow. I just wanted to let you guys know I appreciate your use of the the spoiler tag.
I
Cameron wrote:steveschneider wrote:
- Some More Thoughts:
So I gave the movie a little thought and the end battle was pretty ridiculous and confusing. So it was always the Emperor's plan to have both of them show up in the chamber or just Rey? He said that he always wanted her to live and then he bought out that shit that if she struck him down he'd take over her soul and rule the universe. And then when Ben shows up he sucks both of their powers and becomes a more powerful version of his old self? So wast hat the plan to get them both together and suck out their powers? And then Ben dies after he heals Rey, how come she didn't seem near death when she healed him?
Regarding episode 8, I agree with Cameron's take that it was just stupid to take the series in that direction for an episode and then just pull it back on course for 9. I do think the series needs some fresh shit though after they closed the book on the Sky Walker saga. I think Kennedy would be the right director to take it another direction going forth.
- Spoiler:
- more thoughts:
Yeah, and I guess at the end with Rey and Palpatine it lacked the tension of Return of the Jedi. The whole series they had set up Luke's anger issues and the Emperor was going to use it against him. The entire end battle I didn't for a second think she was going to strike him down even when he shot electricity up into space to hurt the fleet. I just felt like they kind of dropped the ball on that climatic battle.
What else, the character Poe seems like a huge dud to me. I could care less about him, feel no sympathy for him. I felt like I wanted to learn more about his ex gf in that suit and that new lady that road the horse. Both of them had more back story I wanted to learn. As for him he's very meh.
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Re: Star Wars
by tGreenWay 12/23/2019, 11:04 am
Floyd Robertson wrote:Maybe I'll go see it tomorrow. I just wanted to let you guys know I appreciate your use of the the spoiler tag.
They’re nice guys. Well, except Cameron. He’s not nice. And Travis, he’s never nice. And, well, Steve isn’t so nice, either. But other than that, the rest are nice guys.
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Re: Star Wars
by tGreenWay 12/23/2019, 2:30 pm
steveschneider wrote:Greenway is trying to instigate a dsf.
I have no idea what you’re talking about.
tGreenWay- Geronte
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