Israel war

DWags wrote:


So, you have a list of cities and states that the legal system counts and doesn’t count in?

Are you guys this obtuse in real life?

I never said that the legal system doesn't count anywhere.

Zurn wrote:

DWags wrote:


So, you have a list of cities and states that the legal system counts and doesn’t count in?  

Are you guys this obtuse in real life?

I never said that the legal system doesn't count anywhere.  

No but we do wonder if you are.  Trump"s rape was proven in a court of law but you deny that as proven.

What is more astounding is you can read the court record and there really in no question that he raped her, he did.

Zurn wrote:

DWags wrote:


So, you have a list of cities and states that the legal system counts and doesn’t count in?  

I never said that the legal system doesn't count anywhere.  

serious question: does the MAGA movement hold meetings to discuss how to deny something that you previously said and is documented for all to see?

you wrote:the findings of a court (especially a NY court) aren't really proof of anything.

or maybe y'all just call it 'church'? Is that the meeting place?

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

you wrote:the findings of a court (especially a NY court) aren't really proof of anything.

Still quoting my very accurate statement, i see.

Thanks for the bump.

Zurn wrote:





Still quoting my very accurate statement, i see.

Thanks for the bump.

dude, don't thank me - I will forever bump the MAGA folks.

check the Trial thread, where your christian hero said this:

According to Trump, “virtually every legal scholar says they don’t understand” the charges.

“Even if he was guilty of something, there is no crime,” Trump told reporters, referring to himself.  

it's pretty easy to see where y'all get your marching orders..

"even if I am guilty.. it's just the American judicial system, the Constitution... doesn't really mean anything"...

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

it's pretty easy to see where y'all get your marching orders..

On this issue (that a jury verdict isn't proof of anything) I am getting my marching orders from people like Carlos DeLuna.

[quote="Zurn"]

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

On this issue (that a jury verdict isn't proof of anything) I am getting my marching orders from people like Carlos DeLuna.    

you tell Carlos that I said "whassup" and that he should've paid more attention in 5th grade civics class.

Opinion: I’m an American doctor who went to Gaza. What I saw wasn’t war — it was annihilation

I stopped keeping track of how many new orphans I had operated on. After surgery they would be filed somewhere in the hospital, I’m unsure of who will take care of them or how they will survive. On one occasion, a handful of children, all about ages 5 to 8, were carried to the emergency room by their parents. All had single sniper shots to the head. These families were returning to their homes in Khan Yunis, about 2.5 miles away from the hospital, after Israeli tanks had withdrawn. But the snipers apparently stayed behind. None of these children survived.


On my last day, as I returned to the guest house where locals knew foreigners were staying, a young boy ran up and handed me a small gift. It was a rock from the beach, with an Arabic inscription written with a marker: “From Gaza, With Love, Despite the Pain.” As I stood on the balcony looking out at Rafah for the last time, we could hear the drones, bombings and bursts of machine-gun fire, but something was different this time: The sounds were louder, the explosions were closer.


This week, Israeli forces raided another large hospital in Gaza, and they’re planning a ground offensive in Rafah. I feel incredibly guilty that I was able to leave while millions are forced to endure the nightmare in Gaza. As an American, I think of our tax dollars paying for the weapons that likely injured my patients there. Already driven from their homes, these people have nowhere else to turn.

I’m heart broken when I read this stuff.

Is there any idea out there that brings this insanity to an end? Or is the hatred so biblically deep that there will never be any ability to reason with either side.

Finger wagging hasn't worked yet, that's all we can really say definitively.

Zurn wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

it's pretty easy to see where y'all get your marching orders..

On this issue (that a jury verdict isn't proof of anything) I am getting my marching orders from people like Carlos DeLuna.

It is 95% easy to see you are using the totally flawed binary logic system which of course caused you to have 95% flawed conclusions.

DWags wrote:I’m heart broken when I read this stuff.

Is there any idea out there that brings this insanity to an end? Or is the hatred so biblically deep that there will never be any ability to reason with either side.

When two little kids want the same ice cream cone the result is ice cream all over the floor. When the adults in the room take bets on which kid gets the cone the result is that the adults are pissed off, also.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
you tell Carlos that I said "whassup" and that he should've paid more attention in 5th grade civics class.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/jul/05/carlos-deluna-innocent-man-executed-murder-documentary

Zurn wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
you tell Carlos that I said "whassup" and that he should've paid more attention in 5th grade civics class.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/jul/05/carlos-deluna-innocent-man-executed-murder-documentary

Agree, the death penalty is horrific. Glad you see that. by the way, , the right wing Supreme Court this past June in Jones vs Hendrix just slammed another door shut for innocent people seeking justice. Under the Court’s ruling, some people who are completely innocent will be barred from ever seeking relief in federal court

Oh, wait, are you implying that because about 4% of incarcerated people are innocent that you should ignore court rulings?

Jesus man, thanks to Trumps court, many of the innocent won’t get a chance to prove it.

Zurn wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
you tell Carlos that I said "whassup" and that he should've paid more attention in 5th grade civics class.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/jul/05/carlos-deluna-innocent-man-executed-murder-documentary

thanks for this.

As someone who is genuinely pro-life.. not just in some selective political/christian way.. the death penalty is absolutely horrifying.

Which is also why I'm able to refer to what Israel is doing as what it is. Genocide.

Cameron wrote:Opinion: I’m an American doctor who went to Gaza. What I saw wasn’t war — it was annihilation

I stopped keeping track of how many new orphans I had operated on. After surgery they would be filed somewhere in the hospital, I’m unsure of who will take care of them or how they will survive. On one occasion, a handful of children, all about ages 5 to 8, were carried to the emergency room by their parents. All had single sniper shots to the head. These families were returning to their homes in Khan Yunis, about 2.5 miles away from the hospital, after Israeli tanks had withdrawn. But the snipers apparently stayed behind. None of these children survived.


On my last day, as I returned to the guest house where locals knew foreigners were staying, a young boy ran up and handed me a small gift. It was a rock from the beach, with an Arabic inscription written with a marker: “From Gaza, With Love, Despite the Pain.” As I stood on the balcony looking out at Rafah for the last time, we could hear the drones, bombings and bursts of machine-gun fire, but something was different this time: The sounds were louder, the explosions were closer.


This week, Israeli forces raided another large hospital in Gaza, and they’re planning a ground offensive in Rafah. I feel incredibly guilty that I was able to leave while millions are forced to endure the nightmare in Gaza. As an American, I think of our tax dollars paying for the weapons that likely injured my patients there. Already driven from their homes, these people have nowhere else to turn.

I'm sure the "pro-life" christians find this horrifying.

So much so, I feel a lecture on boats coming on.

Good grief.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/rcna139360

The party desperately needs more “Tom Suozzis”.

DWags wrote:I’m heart broken when I read this stuff.  

Is there any idea out there that brings this insanity to an end?  Or is the hatred so biblically deep that there will never be any ability to reason with either side.

The US vetoing another UN ceasefire resolution would surely help, though, right?

Hasn't happened yet, but signs are not encouraging.

Cameron wrote:

DWags wrote:I’m heart broken when I read this stuff.  

Is there any idea out there that brings this insanity to an end?  Or is the hatred so biblically deep that there will never be any ability to reason with either side.

The US vetoing another UN ceasefire resolution would surely help, though, right?

Hasn't happened yet, but signs are not encouraging.

According to the United States it wouldn't help at this time and would delay or end the cease fire effort that the US has been working to achieve. At least that is what the link says.

Zurn wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
you tell Carlos that I said "whassup" and that he should've paid more attention in 5th grade civics class.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/jul/05/carlos-deluna-innocent-man-executed-murder-documentary

Texas wrongfully executing someone isn't the flex you think it is.

Motown Spartan wrote:

Texas wrongfully executing someone isn't the flex you think it is.

My statement that a jury verdict isn't proof of anything has been widely mocked and misstated on this board. It's a statement that is obvious truth. I brought up the case of Carlos DeLuna (who Bob saw fit to mock) not as a "flex" but as a simple example of that truth. It's actually sad that I had to do so.

Zurn wrote:

Motown Spartan wrote:

Texas wrongfully executing someone isn't the flex you think it is.

My statement that a jury verdict isn't proof of anything has been widely mocked and misstated on this board. It's a statement that is obvious truth. I brought up the case of Carlos DeLuna (who Bob saw fit to mock) not as a "flex" but as a simple example of that truth. It's actually sad that I had to do so.

Your refusal to admit that a jury ruling is proof under the rule of law is disturbing, to say the least.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Zurn wrote:

My statement that a jury verdict isn't proof of anything has been widely mocked and misstated on this board. It's a statement that is obvious truth. I brought up the case of Carlos DeLuna (who Bob saw fit to mock) not as a "flex" but as a simple example of that truth. It's actually sad that I had to do so.

Your refusal to admit that a jury ruling is proof under the rule of law is disturbing, to say the least.

We see who they get their marching orders from. Disturbing but not all surprising given who they align themselves with.

Breaking News, I guess...

[tw]1760414383719551151?s=20[/tw]

Trapper Gus wrote:

Breaking News, I guess...

So you think Israel should agree to a cease fire in exchange for hostage negotiations?

Trapper Gus wrote:

Your refusal to admit that a jury ruling is proof under the rule of law is disturbing, to say the least.

I'll stand with the family of Carlos DeLuna on this one

Cameron wrote:[tw]1760414383719551151?s=20[/tw]

and to think that there are people who support this genocide.

sad commentary on the world and humanity.

Zurn wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Your refusal to admit that a jury ruling is proof under the rule of law is disturbing, to say the least.

I'll stand with the family of Carlos DeLuna on this one

and, oddly enough, your racist, bigoted christian sexual predator rapist hero.

[tw]1760687835819204660?s=20[/tw]

This seems to me to be extremely revealing. "There are levers the president could pull." "He said he didn't like the settlements." "But he didn't do anything about them." "It's a path."

Completely empty rhetoric. If you watch other clips, you'll also note some rather shameless lying, but that's another matter...

She needs to retire. 

There are many obvious reasons of course. But the one I’m speaking of is that she’s just some asshole house member now. Is Jefferies the leader of the democrat caucus or is she? Why are we interviewing her and hearing about her all the time? She needs to get out of the way and let the actual leaders lead. She needs to go old pope route and insider trade from a monastery so that the new pope can be properly positioned as the true leader.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Cameron wrote:

The US vetoing another UN ceasefire resolution would surely help, though, right?

Hasn't happened yet, but signs are not encouraging.

According to the United States it wouldn't help at this time and would delay or end the cease fire effort that the US has been working to achieve.  At least that is what the link says.

Trapper Gus wrote:

Breaking News, I guess...

This is worth reading in full, but here are some excerpts:

MSF briefing on Gaza to UN Security Council

Christopher Lockyear, Secretary General of Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF), has today given a briefing to the United Nations Security Council, calling on them to demand an immediate and sustained ceasefire in Gaza, Palestine. Addressing the Council at its monthly meeting on Gaza, Mr Lockyear also called for the unequivocal protection of medical facilities, staff, and patients.

Surgeons have had no choice but to carry out amputations without anaesthesia, on children.

Our surgeons are running out of basic gauze to stop their patients from bleeding out. They use it once, squeeze out the blood, wash it, sterilize it, and reuse it for the next patient.  

The humanitarian crisis in Gaza has left pregnant women without medical care for months. Women in labour cannot reach functional delivery rooms. They are giving birth in plastic tents and public buildings.

Medical teams have added a new acronym to their vocabulary: WCNSF— wounded child, no surviving family.
 
Children who survive this war will not only bear the visible wounds of traumatic injuries but the invisible ones, too—those of repeated displacement, constant fear, and witnessing family members literally dismembered before their eyes. These psychological injuries have led children as young as five to tell us they would prefer to die.

The dangers for medical staff are enormous. On a daily basis, we are making the choice to continue working, despite the increasing risks.

We are scared. Our teams are beyond exhausted.

We are appalled by the willingness of the United States to use its powers as a permanent Council member to obstruct efforts to adopt the most evident of resolutions: one demanding an immediate and sustained ceasefire.

Three times this Council has had an opportunity to vote for the ceasefire that is so desperately needed and three times the United States has used its veto power, most recently this Tuesday.  

A new draft resolution by the United States ostensibly calls for a ceasefire. However, this is misleading at best.

This Council should reject any resolution that further hampers humanitarian efforts on the ground and leads this Council to tacitly endorse the continued violence and mass atrocities in Gaza.  

The people of Gaza need a ceasefire not when “practicable,” but now. They need a sustained ceasefire, not a “temporary period of calm.” Anything short of this is gross negligence.

The consequences of casting international humanitarian law to the wind will reverberate well beyond Gaza.  

It will be an enduring burden on our collective conscience.

This is not just political inaction—it has become political complicity.  

Two days ago, MSF staff and families were attacked and died in a place they were told would be protected.
 
Today our staff are back at work, risking their lives once again for their patients.

What are you willing to risk?  
 
We demand the protections promised under International Humanitarian Law.  
 
We demand a ceasefire from both parties.
 
We demand the space to turn the illusion of aid into meaningful assistance.  
 
What will you do to make this possible?  
 
Thank you, Madam President.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Zurn wrote:

I'll stand with the family of Carlos DeLuna on this one

and, oddly enough, your racist, bigoted christian sexual predator rapist hero.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. And by blind squirrel I am referring to the bad orange guy, not you.

Zurn wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote: and, oddly enough, your racist, bigoted christian sexual predator rapist hero.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.   And by blind squirrel I am referring to the bad orange guy, not you.

do y'all sit around in church and talk about how courts, the judicial system and the Constitution don't really mean anything?

if so, it explains a little as to why I get a bad feeling every time I go by one (other than the obvious reason).

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

Zurn wrote:

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.   And by blind squirrel I am referring to the bad orange guy, not you.

do y'all sit around in church and talk about how courts, the judicial system and the Constitution don't really mean anything?

if so, it explains a little as to why I get a bad feeling every time I go by one (other than the obvious reason).

My wife and I were married in her church Fort St., Presbyterian downtown Detroit.  She was Presbyterian. I was raised Italian Catholic.   Because she knew that my mom and my grandmother were very religious, my wife set it up or we would have a double ceremony.   That means the Reverend from her church was there and so was a priest from the capuchin center   my mom and grandmother were beyond pleased


But let’s cut to the chase  back when I got married you still had to go through marriage classes at both Presbyterian Church and the Catholic Church  pre marriage. They were an interesting waste of time pretty boring   But one day at our Catholic church classes they ask my wife to leave the room and we were in separate rooms  Two priests came in and said to me, as a Catholic, I should do everything in my power to introduce any children to the Catholic religion  

I didn’t mind them saying that to me   But I was furious that they dismissed my future wife and felt they had to say that to me privately   What little trace of religion I had left in me disappeared. WTF.

I told her on the drive home that I actually didn’t want the Catholic  priest at our ceremony, she talked me out of it.  My mom doesn’t know about it.  

If people don’t think religions are a cult, you are beyond blind

DWags wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
do y'all sit around in church and talk about how courts, the judicial system and the Constitution don't really mean anything?

if so, it explains a little as to why I get a bad feeling every time I go by one (other than the obvious reason).

My wife and I were married in her church Fort St., Presbyterian downtown Detroit.  She was Presbyterian. I was raised Italian Catholic.   Because she knew that my mom and my grandmother were very religious, my wife set it up or we would have a double ceremony.   That means the Reverend from her church was there and so was a priest from the capuchin center   my mom and grandmother were beyond pleased


But let’s cut to the chase  back when I got married you still had to go through marriage classes at both Presbyterian Church and the Catholic Church  pre marriage. They were an interesting waste of time pretty boring   But one day at our Catholic church classes they ask my wife to leave the room and we were in separate rooms  Two priests came in and said to me, as a Catholic, I should do everything in my power to introduce any children to the Catholic religion  

I didn’t mind them saying that to me   But I was furious that they dismissed my future wife and felt they had to say that to me privately   What little trace of religion I had left in me disappeared. WTF.

I told her on the drive home that I actually didn’t want the Catholic  priest at our ceremony, she talked me out of it.  My mom doesn’t know about it.  

If people don’t think religions are a cult, you are beyond blind

Jesus seems like a pretty awesome dude, from the stories that I have heard.

Churches can fuck the fuck off.

Motown Spartan wrote:

DWags wrote:


My wife and I were married in her church Fort St., Presbyterian downtown Detroit.  She was Presbyterian. I was raised Italian Catholic.   Because she knew that my mom and my grandmother were very religious, my wife set it up or we would have a double ceremony.   That means the Reverend from her church was there and so was a priest from the capuchin center   my mom and grandmother were beyond pleased


But let’s cut to the chase  back when I got married you still had to go through marriage classes at both Presbyterian Church and the Catholic Church  pre marriage. They were an interesting waste of time pretty boring   But one day at our Catholic church classes they ask my wife to leave the room and we were in separate rooms  Two priests came in and said to me, as a Catholic, I should do everything in my power to introduce any children to the Catholic religion  

I didn’t mind them saying that to me   But I was furious that they dismissed my future wife and felt they had to say that to me privately   What little trace of religion I had left in me disappeared. WTF.

I told her on the drive home that I actually didn’t want the Catholic  priest at our ceremony, she talked me out of it.  My mom doesn’t know about it.  

If people don’t think religions are a cult, you are beyond blind

Jesus seems like a pretty awesome dude, from the stories that I have heard.

Churches can fuck the fuck off.

Perfect.

DWags wrote:

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
do y'all sit around in church and talk about how courts, the judicial system and the Constitution don't really mean anything?

if so, it explains a little as to why I get a bad feeling every time I go by one (other than the obvious reason).

My wife and I were married in her church Fort St., Presbyterian downtown Detroit.  She was Presbyterian. I was raised Italian Catholic.   Because she knew that my mom and my grandmother were very religious, my wife set it up or we would have a double ceremony.   That means the Reverend from her church was there and so was a priest from the capuchin center   my mom and grandmother were beyond pleased


But let’s cut to the chase  back when I got married you still had to go through marriage classes at both Presbyterian Church and the Catholic Church  pre marriage. They were an interesting waste of time pretty boring   But one day at our Catholic church classes and ask my wife to leave the room and we were in separate rooms   to priest came in and said to me, as a Catholic, I should do everything in my power to introduce any children we might have the Catholic religion  

I didn’t mind them saying that to me   But I was furious that they dismissed my future wife and felt they had to say that to me privately   What little trace of religion I had left in me disappeared. WTF.

I told her on the drive home that I actually didn’t want the Catholic  priest at our ceremony, she talked me out of it.  My mom doesn’t know about it.  

If people don’t think religions are a cult, you are beyond blind

yikes, man. Yeah, the whole religion thing gives me the heebie jeebies.

we got married in a church in Georgia 29+ years ago and, I believe, it's the last time I've been inside one. Been to a synagogue a few times for various Bar/Bat Mizvahs, my wife did some work at a Hindu temple for a bit and went with her once to check it out. Was at a Greek Orthodox church for a ELHS function once - which reminds me..

Funny story: I volunteered to sit on the East Lansing HS Baccalaureate committee for a few years. It was a non-denominational celebration of the graduates of that particular year. It was very East Lansing-ish in that we had christian speakers, a rabbi involved, someone from the Hindu community, even had some Native American involvement where they had a drum circle, some New Age-type stuff, etc. It was kinda cool.

The only reason I was even on the committee was to make sure it didn't take some right wing turn.. .. one year, we were going around the table to discuss who was going to be involved, who we had contacted, etc. This one fucked up Catholic lady in town said she had reached out to the East Lansing Islamic Center but "hadn't heard back from them" and moved that we "just continue without them".

Now I hadn't said anything the whole damn time the committee had been meeting (I'm kinda quiet in public) - but I'm like "hold up, lady.." -   - I said "I'll take care of it". While we were sitting there, I texted a colleague who attends the Islamic Center of East Lansing who put me in contact with their Imam. I spoke with him that evening, emailed the committee and said that he would be happy to attend the East Lansing HS Baccalaureate and speak to the graduates.

it was pretty awesome.

Motown Spartan wrote:

DWags wrote:


My wife and I were married in her church Fort St., Presbyterian downtown Detroit.  She was Presbyterian. I was raised Italian Catholic.   Because she knew that my mom and my grandmother were very religious, my wife set it up or we would have a double ceremony.   That means the Reverend from her church was there and so was a priest from the capuchin center   my mom and grandmother were beyond pleased


But let’s cut to the chase  back when I got married you still had to go through marriage classes at both Presbyterian Church and the Catholic Church  pre marriage. They were an interesting waste of time pretty boring   But one day at our Catholic church classes they ask my wife to leave the room and we were in separate rooms  Two priests came in and said to me, as a Catholic, I should do everything in my power to introduce any children to the Catholic religion  

I didn’t mind them saying that to me   But I was furious that they dismissed my future wife and felt they had to say that to me privately   What little trace of religion I had left in me disappeared. WTF.

I told her on the drive home that I actually didn’t want the Catholic  priest at our ceremony, she talked me out of it.  My mom doesn’t know about it.  

If people don’t think religions are a cult, you are beyond blind

Jesus seems like a pretty awesome dude, from the stories that I have heard.

Churches can fuck the fuck off.

yep - I like to say that, from what I read, I don't have a problem with Jesus. It's his/her fan club that is terrifying.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:

DWags wrote:


My wife and I were married in her church Fort St., Presbyterian downtown Detroit.  She was Presbyterian. I was raised Italian Catholic.   Because she knew that my mom and my grandmother were very religious, my wife set it up or we would have a double ceremony.   That means the Reverend from her church was there and so was a priest from the capuchin center   my mom and grandmother were beyond pleased


But let’s cut to the chase  back when I got married you still had to go through marriage classes at both Presbyterian Church and the Catholic Church  pre marriage. They were an interesting waste of time pretty boring   But one day at our Catholic church classes and ask my wife to leave the room and we were in separate rooms   to priest came in and said to me, as a Catholic, I should do everything in my power to introduce any children we might have the Catholic religion  

I didn’t mind them saying that to me   But I was furious that they dismissed my future wife and felt they had to say that to me privately   What little trace of religion I had left in me disappeared. WTF.

I told her on the drive home that I actually didn’t want the Catholic  priest at our ceremony, she talked me out of it.  My mom doesn’t know about it.  

If people don’t think religions are a cult, you are beyond blind

yikes, man. Yeah, the whole religion thing gives me the heebie jeebies.

we got married in a church in Georgia 29+ years ago and, I believe, it's the last time I've been inside one. Been to a synagogue a few times for various Bar/Bat Mizvahs, my wife did some work at a Hindu temple for a bit and went with her once to check it out. Was at a Greek Orthodox church for a ELHS function once - which reminds me..

Funny story: I volunteered to sit on the East Lansing HS Baccalaureate committee for a few years. It was a non-denominational celebrate of the graduates of that particular year. It was very East Lansing-ish in that we had christian speakers, a rabbi involved, someone from the Hindu community, even had some Native American involvement where they had a drum circle, some New Age-type stuff, etc. It was kinda cool.

The only reason I was even on the committee was to make sure it didn't take some right wing turn.. .. one year, we were going around the table to discuss who was going to be involved, who we had contacted, etc. This one fucked up Catholic lady in town said she had reached out to the East Lansing Islamic Center but "hadn't heard back from them" and moved that we "just continue without them".

Now I hadn't said anything the whole dame time the committee had been meeting (I'm kinda quiet in public) - but I'm like "hold up, lady.." -   - I said "I'll take care of it". While we were sitting there, I texted a colleague who attends the Islamic Center of East Lansing who put me in contact with their Imam. I spoke with him that evening, emailed the committee and said that he would be happy to attend the East Lansing HS Baccalaureate and speak to the graduates.

it was pretty awesome.

I’m thinking you upset one Catholic lady.