AS MICHIGAN STATE ALUMS WE HAVE A FUCKING VOICE - WE SHOULD USE IT

MiamiSpartan wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:The News doin work.

What's the gist of it, so I don't have to give them clicks?


I tend to think it's a pretty thick line between PSU and MSU.  Which isn't to say that we don't deserve a lot shit over Nassar.  But comparing PSU football to MSU gymnastics is like comparing the US government to a town council in Podunk, USA.  As Spartans, we can't even imagine what it's like for a sport to have the importance that football has at PSU.  And as much as we love Izzo and Dantonio, it's not even in the same stratosphere of how revered Paterno was (and still is) at PSU.  He was one of the most powerful people on any college campus anywhere in the country.  And his number one long time, bff and assistant was the one doing this stuff.  There is overwhelming evidence that Paterno, the President, and other administrators knew what was going on to at least some degree.  

On top of that, there is absolutely nothing that Sandusky did that can even remotely be considered part of his job, or a legitimate football coaching technique.  There were not parents that were sometimes standing in the showers with Sandusky and their sons thinking that he was coaching their boys.

I'm sorry, but I don't see those kinds of differences as being a thin line.  

It's pretty fair. They don't mention the football or basketball programs at all. The clickbait title was the one thing that was a bit much. The author equates the people that knew about Sandusky to the people that knew about Nassar. Problem is Sandusky's shit was blatant rape. Nassar's shit was concealed as a medical procedure.

She talks about Joel Furguson's dismissive comments, the initial review by Patrick Fitzgerald which basically said no one in the university knew of Nassar's actions prior to 2016, and the litigation to come. It's gonna be bad.

Apparently PSU did their own internal investigation that was much more damning, but I know nothing about it so there's not much I'm going to comment on other than it still seems to be comparing apples to oranges a bit.

Look for about six months to a year, none of us are going to know what sanctions come out against MSU. ESPN has it angled that since this monster hurt gymnasts and softball players, the football and basketball programs should suffer. How they do that is beyond me. But I guess I could see a percentage of scholarships taken from every sport we have. If they use the OTL to only penalize our money sports, it’s going to be a real reach.

That said, I don’t know guys, MSU has to get kicked in the balls some how for this. If our money Sports just skate, while it might have no connection, nobody sees it that way. There would be outrage. We’ll be hated far and wide... forever.

It’s just us now. So fuck it. Might as well win as much as possible.

If the NCAA takes scholarships away from football and basketball without any further evidence of wrongdoing in those programs it will be a huge overreach considering Nassar was not an athletic department employee. They better penalize the quidditch team too.

Floyd Robertson wrote:If the NCAA takes scholarships away from football and basketball without any further evidence of wrongdoing in those programs it will be a huge overreach considering Nassar was not an athletic department employee. They better penalize the quidditch team too.

That’s where I’d draw the line.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

It's pretty fair. They don't mention the football or basketball programs at all. The clickbait title was the one thing that was a bit much. The author equates the people that knew about Sandusky to the people that knew about Nassar. Problem is Sandusky's shit was blatant rape. Nassar's shit was concealed as a medical procedure.

She talks about Joel Furguson's dismissive comments, the initial review by Patrick Fitzgerald which basically said no one in the university knew of Nassar's actions prior to 2016, and the litigation to come. It's gonna be bad.

Apparently PSU did their own internal investigation that was much more damning, but I know nothing about it so there's not much I'm going to comment on other than it still seems to be comparing apples to oranges a bit.

So the article wasn't really about a thin line, just the sensationalist headline. I guess I'm glad that the article itself was fair, but man, fuck you, Detroit News headline writers.

While I'm sure that they can equate some things about people that knew about Sandusky vs Nassar, but the big difference is WHO knew. Kathy Klages and William Strampel compared to Joe Paterno and Graham Spanier? I mean, it's really not even comparable in terms of the power that they had. I guess if anything, Klages and Strampel had the motivation to not let it get any further than them, because higher ups at MSU wouldn't really have any incentive to maliciously cover up for a fucking gymnastics doctor. Whereas you couldn't really get any higher than Paterno and Spanier, both of whom had a massive hundred million dollar football program as their incentive to try to cover it up.

Yeah, I was expecting to see Dantonio = Paterno and lose my shit. It wasn't that bad.

Harns is doing some good research on Twitter. I'll link later. Stuff espn easily could have found but didn't bother to.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Harns is doing some good research on Twitter. I'll link later. Stuff espn easily could have found but didn't bother to.

I've read some of it. My bet is they found it alright. It just didn't fit the story they were trying to shape.

gHost Spartan wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Harns is doing some good research on Twitter. I'll link later. Stuff espn easily could have found but didn't bother to.

Who is that guy, WBH?

He writes for something called iSportsWeb. Over the last couple of years he's been better than Detroit beat writers.

gHost Spartan wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Harns is doing some good research on Twitter. I'll link later. Stuff espn easily could have found but didn't bother to.

Isn't this what our beat writers should have been doing years ago?

Yes.

gHost Spartan wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:Harns is doing some good research on Twitter. I'll link later. Stuff espn easily could have found but didn't bother to.

Isn't this what our beat writers should have been doing years ago?

Ghost, did you ever listened to Marion in the 90s, bro?

Tony Paul hit piece in the News this morning.

Travis Walton’s accuser speaks up on pub altercation

Would someone smarter than me explain how MSU "covered this up"???

“I didn’t think it was morally right to not speak up,” Ashley Thompson, a Grand Blanc native now in medical school in Virginia, told The Detroit News in a recent phone interview. “I was advised by the (lawyer) to not talk to the media, to not talk to Michigan State, to not talk to Travis.

So she never told MSU - yet they covered it up or mishandled it?

LooseGoose wrote:Tony Paul hit piece in the News this morning.

Travis Walton’s accuser speaks up on pub altercation

Would someone smarter than me explain how MSU "covered this up"???

“I didn’t think it was morally right to not speak up,” Ashley Thompson, a Grand Blanc native now in medical school in Virginia, told The Detroit News in a recent phone interview. “I was advised by the (lawyer) to not talk to the media, to not talk to Michigan State, to not talk to Travis.

So she never told MSU - yet they covered it up or mishandled it?

Her lawyer was in MSU's pocket, bro. Duh.

LooseGoose wrote:Tony Paul hit piece in the News this morning.

Travis Walton’s accuser speaks up on pub altercation

Would someone smarter than me explain how MSU "covered this up"???

“I didn’t think it was morally right to not speak up,” Ashley Thompson, a Grand Blanc native now in medical school in Virginia, told The Detroit News in a recent phone interview. “I was advised by the (lawyer) to not talk to the media, to not talk to Michigan State, to not talk to Travis.

So she never told MSU - yet they covered it up or mishandled it?

Because Izzo runs the town and every lawyer would have told her not to talk to MSU. Deep Green conspiracy.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Floyd Robertson wrote:

Because Izzo runs the town and every lawyer would have told her not to talk to MSU. Deep Green conspiracy.

The Green Seat Mafiosa that blanch had warned us about.

blanch was so far ahead on this that for once we should have listened to him.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Floyd Robertson wrote:

Because Izzo runs the town and every lawyer would have told her not to talk to MSU. Deep Green conspiracy.

The Green Seat Mafiosa that blanch had warned us about.

Oh shit, I forgot about that idiot and his stupid G.S.M. bullshit. I kinda wish he were still around so we could see him go nuts and then get banned again.

The Dowager Lady Margret, Countess and Prefict of Northumbria

At this point I have forgotten what you have to try to write to get that auto text.

Excellent article by MSU alum.



"At the risk of facing a prolonged, accusatory glare from society, this reporter is openly admitting to being an alumnus of Michigan State University. Class of 1985.

In light of the unfolding sexual abuse scandal at MSU, that is not a pleasant position to be in these days. Like Spartans across the globe, I am angry, embarrassed and ashamed that a prominent sports doctor at my school used his position as a cover to prey upon girls and young women, and that such an abomination could go on for as long as it did.

So let’s start with a disclaimer: this entire episode leaves a disgraceful mark on Michigan State’s reputation that will never go away. This institution, which was at the forefront of the desegregation of sports in America, is now known as the place that harbored convicted serial sexual abuser Larry Nassar, who was recently sentenced to up to 175 years in prison.

If you are looking for some sort of defense of MSU as it pertains to Nassar, you won’t find it. Not here, not anywhere. Nobody — not even the most fervent Spartan fan — is defending the repugnance of Nassar’s actions, or the school’s sickening inaction.


It is a scar that MSU must own. And anybody who is found to be complicit should be fired and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Period. There is nothing that can be said to the many victims that will erase the horrors of the abuse, but experts say part of the healing process will come with the justice of seeing the perpetrators exposed and punished.

Just in the last few weeks, the Michigan Attorney General’s Office and the U.S. Department of Education have announced investigations, and the NCAA has jumped on board to see if any of its rules were violated. And those moves were made with unanimous approval from the university. The MSU Board of Trustees actually requested an investigation in a letter to Attorney General Bill Schuette eight days before it was announced.

It all brings us to a second, semi-related topic: The subsequent accusations aired on ESPN’s Outside the Lines program, which turned the spotlight to Michigan State basketball coach Tom Izzo, and football coach Mark Dantonio. It was not surprising that the high profile programs have now undergone scrutiny, but the end result was a fishing expedition, to be charitable — a hit-piece to be precise.

To understand this argument, it requires the ability to hold two opposing sets of facts concurrently. It requires context, which too often gets lost in a society and a social media culture that often caters to the mentality of the mob. Think of it as angry pitchfork-carrying villagers in cyberspace with bloodlust in their eyes looking to nail the next convenient target.

Is it even possible, in this environment, to believe that MSU was horrible in regard to Nassar, while at the same time sticking up for the rights and reputations of Izzo and Dantonio, who have never previously been accused of any transgressions and have been pillars of the college coaching community for decades?

Please don’t misunderstand; this is not an attempt to blindly defend anybody. But also understand that there is not one scintilla of evidence that either Izzo or Dantonio, or their programs, had anything to do with the Nassar scandal. And you should also know that there has never been so much as a single allegation in this regard.

And yet after watching the ESPN report, it’s safe to say that a large majority of the public, who aren’t familiar with the intricacies of the scandal, now believe Izzo and Dantonio had something to do with Nassar, and that MSU is a place that not only allowed sexual assault, but propagated it.

That’s because ESPN was extremely reckless, not only in the way it framed the accusations, but also in the way it presented them, though a montage of visual quick cuts of Nassar, Izzo, Dantonio and Michigan State landmarks. And that wasn’t the only unfair linkage presented: the report featured an hour of unsubstantiated accusations apparently designed to tie it all together, when nobody has so much as ever alleged a connection.

It leaves the audience with a false narrative, conflating the Nassar tragedy with accusations that Izzo and Dantonio have either covered up or stymied separate sexual assault complaints dating back more than a decade. With a report that is woefully short on facts, heavy on hearsay and lacking in context, ESPN wraps it all up under the headline: “Crisis at Michigan State.”

Trying the two together with zero proof is irresponsible journalism. Where is the litany of sources? The OTL piece relies heavily on antidotal accusations from a former MSU sexual assault counselor, but offered no evidence of wrongdoing.

There is lots of disorienting sizzle, but no steak. Where are the emails of some sort of cover-up like you had in the Jerry Sandusky saga at Penn State? How about evidence that coaches intimidated witnesses, which was documented at Baylor?

All ESPN provides is largely a rehashing of old news presented as new. True investigative journalism shouldn’t take previously published stories, repackage them together and then try to equate it with an unrelated matter.

Anybody who has followed MSU athletics over the years is aware of the previous accusations of sexual assault or violence by football players dating back to 2007. What is more important: the number of complaints, or how they were adjudicated or dropped by the authorities? In the report, we get the former but not the latter. And, more importantly, where is the evidence that Dantonio mishandled any of it?

As for basketball, the only new information was the naming of three former players accused of wrongdoing. Two were never charged, according to the county prosecutor at the time due to a lack of evidence, and the third — Travis Walton, a volunteer assistant coach at the time — wound up pleading guilty to littering. If you’re interested, Walton’s public statement denying any assault includes some credible details left out of ESPN reporting. In fact, Izzo and Dantonio were never interviewed for the piece.

Such an attempt to rewrite history should always require some evidence. What has been aired on OTL looks more like a witch hunt — an attempt to seize on the highly-charged emotions right now by tarring and feathering Izzo and Dantonio. To level these kinds of serious charges, and impugn their reputations, you must have more than accusations presented as truth.

One of the prime complaints from ESPN is that MSU resisted releasing the names of accused athletes, and had to go to court to do it. What goes unsaid is that virtually every college in our country would be resistant to naming any student accused of wrongdoing before they are either charged or exonerated.

For an example of quality investigative journalism, you need to look no further than the Indianapolis Star, which broke the story of the nexus between Nassar and USA Gymnastics in 2016. And the Detroit News offered a well-researched expose outlining the claim that 14 MSU staffers (nobody on the football or men’s basketball staffs, incidentially) were previously warned of Nassar’s abuse.

Make no mistake: If an investigation establishes evidence that Izzo and/or Dantonio handled the ESPN allegations illegally, or that they tried to block an any investigation, I would be the first to call for them to step down. And if it comes to that, it should not take ESPN off the hook for going with an original report so bereft of facts.

The university’s president and athletic director have already stepped down because the Nassar scandal happened on their watch. But to level unsubstantiated unrelated complaints that could cost jobs, and ruin careers as well as legacies — well that is much different. Does ESPN have anything other than conjecture when it comes to Izzo and Dantonio?

The above named investigations should move forward, and everyone needs to see where the truth leads. This is too serious and allegations are simply not enough."

Neil Geoghegan, an alumnus of Michigan State University, is a staff writer for the Daily Local News and Pa. Prep Live.

https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/961262558475964418

Ghost doin' work.

Thanks NW, when its good shit like that please feel free to drop the link as well, these articles deserve the clicks but good dig my brother.

That's a great statement of the position of most Spartans.

Thanks for posting it NW.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/961262558475964418

Ghost doin' work.

... so I'm checking it out and notice a pretty vocal dude (Jay Smith)... check it out further and most of his (re-) tweets are about the MSU deal. Eventually, and as predicted, come his scUm fandom posts. LOL

MattyFresh wrote:Thanks NW, when its good shit like that please feel free to drop the link as well, these articles deserve the clicks but good dig my brother.

I started my post by giving only the link and got a message saying I was not a member long enough to have link privileges. I even had to delete the twitter name for the writer. That is why there is no link for the article and no twitter given for the writer.

NWSpartan wrote:

MattyFresh wrote:Thanks NW, when its good shit like that please feel free to drop the link as well, these articles deserve the clicks but good dig my brother.

I started my post by giving only the link and got a message saying I was not a member long enough to have link privileges. I even had to delete the twitter name for the writer. That is why there is no link for the article and no twitter given for the writer.

Ahhhh my fault, stupid rules

http://www.thereporteronline.com/sports/20180206/geoghegan-nassar-leaves-permanent-scar-on-my-alma-mater-but-should-not-bring-down-izzo-dantonio

Rocinante wrote:At this point I have forgotten what you have to try to write to get that auto text.

g
s
m

NWSpartan wrote:

MattyFresh wrote:Thanks NW, when its good shit like that please feel free to drop the link as well, these articles deserve the clicks but good dig my brother.

I started my post by giving only the link and got a message saying I was not a member long enough to have link privileges. I even had to delete the twitter name for the writer. That is why there is no link for the article and no twitter given for the writer.

Huh, I didn't know this board had a feature like that. Did it say how long until you can post links?

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

NWSpartan wrote:

I started my post by giving only the link and got a message saying I was not a member long enough to have link privileges. I even had to delete the twitter name for the writer. That is why there is no link for the article and no twitter given for the writer.

Huh, I didn't know this board had a feature like that. Did it say how long until you can post links?

I believe the message stated I had to wait at least 7 days. Not a long time in the big scheme but a lifetime in how fast the news has been cycling lately.

Watch Out Pylon! wrote:

NWSpartan wrote:

I started my post by giving only the link and got a message saying I was not a member long enough to have link privileges. I even had to delete the twitter name for the writer. That is why there is no link for the article and no twitter given for the writer.

Huh, I didn't know this board had a feature like that. Did it say how long until you can post links?

I believe the message stated I had to wait at least 7 days. Not a long time in the big scheme but a lifetime in how fast the news has been cycling lately.

More proof that the ESPN author was simply making things up as she went.

I'm getting sick of twitter but I have to give serious props to David Harns. Dude does some great work.

Other than that I think twitter is just a hangout for people addicted to their phone screens. It's a lot of garbage.

steveschneider wrote:I'm getting sick of twitter but I have to give serious props to David Harns. Dude does some great work.

Other than that I think twitter is just a hangout for people addicted to their phone screens. It's a lot of garbage.

yeah I was there with you for a few days but my brain is mostly scrambled now and I started chiming in on shit I really didn't care about.

MattyFresh wrote:

steveschneider wrote:I'm getting sick of twitter but I have to give serious props to David Harns. Dude does some great work.

Other than that I think twitter is just a hangout for people addicted to their phone screens. It's a lot of garbage.

yeah I was there with you for a few days but my brain is mostly scrambled now and I started chiming in on shit I really didn't care about.

Agreed. I think it's a good tool when there's a major news item that you give a shit about. You can set up your feed to give you quick updates from experts. It seems like a really bad time waster otherwise, and I agree with you it can scramble the brain pretty quickly.

http://wkar.org/post/former-msu-lineman-evans-defends-dantonio-im-willing-bet-my-life-it#stream/0

Former MSU Lineman Evans Defends Dantonio: "I'm Willing to Bet my Life on It!"

Craig just got a bunch of points in my book. Good listen there.

MattyFresh wrote:http://wkar.org/post/former-msu-lineman-evans-defends-dantonio-im-willing-bet-my-life-it#stream/0

Former MSU Lineman Evans Defends Dantonio: "I'm Willing to Bet my Life on It!"

Thanks for the link.

gHost Spartan wrote: At least I was able to share my skating with you

I was wondering if you were going to share that with everyone. I thought my teaching/criticism was fair

gHost Spartan wrote:

MattyFresh wrote:

I was wondering if you were going to share that with everyone. I thought my teaching/criticism was fair

Absolutely. I still can't crossover with my left leg though. I also deleted the tweet with my daughter because I didn't want creepers seeing it. My thought was I'll tweet it to you, let you see it, then delete it. Mission accomplished

Yeah, she looked comfortable, had her beginners march going. The biggest issue I have with kids being on ice is when I see them with the broken ankle look constantly, she looked steady.

lets bounce this over to random thread, ghost https://spartanswill.forumotion.com/t16645p640-random-ramblings?highlight=random#520400