AS MICHIGAN STATE ALUMS WE HAVE A FUCKING VOICE - WE SHOULD USE IT

LooseGoose wrote:And now Couch starts to take his beating....
Graham Couch Verified account@Graham_Couch 12h12 hours ago
More Graham Couch Retweeted Deadspin
Solid work by @theisen95. Clearly had read a lot my work and knows me well. Thorough, thoughtful and reasonable.


Deadspin‏Verified account @Deadspin Follow Follow @Deadspin
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East Lansing columnist: ESPN is the real irresponsible party in MSU's sexual assault scandal: http://deadsp.in/ozsbMP7

Unfortunately, the LSJ also features columnist Graham Couch, who spends a lot of his days getting ratioed for poor or useless analysis but occasionally finds time to cover MSU athletics with all the toughness of the school’s own PR department. His latest, from Thursday, is titled “Tom Izzo has chosen a standoff with ESPN – one he might win”:

I'm all for a well thought out rebuttal, but that was a very childish attack piece.

steveschneider wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:And now Couch starts to take his beating....
Graham Couch Verified account@Graham_Couch 12h12 hours ago
More Graham Couch Retweeted Deadspin
Solid work by @theisen95. Clearly had read a lot my work and knows me well. Thorough, thoughtful and reasonable.


Deadspin‏Verified account @Deadspin Follow Follow @Deadspin
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East Lansing columnist: ESPN is the real irresponsible party in MSU's sexual assault scandal: http://deadsp.in/ozsbMP7

I'm all for a well thought out rebuttal, but that was a very childish attack piece.

Michigan Woman.

LooseGoose wrote:And the author gets her ass tore up in the comments....whoooo booy.....

You must not be reading the same comments I am. I'm not sure why I'm reading a comments section but everyone rebutting her is getting torn to pieces and MSU fans are being referred to as cult-ish.

Told you guys it didn't matter anymore. Just accept that this is our fate, regardless of what truths come out of it.

Lauren Theisen
2/01/18 11:20pm
Holy shit. this is written by a Michigan fan. They are on a rampage of caring about sexual assault all of a sudden.

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Lauren Theisen
JFNC
2/01/18 11:37pm
I’ve seen a few of these comments/emails so might as well say, yeah I went to Michigan. But for what it’s worth, a lot of people I love went to or still go to MSU, and I rooted for Izzo and Dantonio and loved Draymond Green and Kirk Cousins when I was a kid/teen. I want them to be a good, safe university.

It shouldn’t matter though. The thing that really scares me is the really warped version of school spirit I’ve seen from a lot in the MSU camp. It’s not unique to them - it happens whenever there’s a scandal at any school - but sometimes an alma mater is such a big part of one’s identity that the gut instinct is always to defend Sparty, or the Block M, or whatever, no matter what. This shouldn’t be about a rivalry, or even sports. Every alum everywhere should be asking their school some really tough questions right now, and being critical doesn’t make you less of a Spartan or Wolverine or whatever.

And Brian Cook wrote a really good jam about U-M’s own shortcomings on this subject, and anyone interested should check it out.

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Tebow Kneeled First
Lauren Theisen
2/02/18 12:06am
I just took a stroll through the grays and hoo boy.

I honestly don’t get why the fact you went there matters. Other than maybe other alums/fans think you are hitting the hive with a stick.

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Dr. Chim Richalds
Lauren Theisen
2/01/18 11:46pm
Cool. Patiently awaiting your piece on Brandon Gibbons and Taylor Lewan then...

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lovintheorange
Lauren Theisen
2/02/18 9:40am
I say this about colleges and countries: Wanting to improve something doesn’t mean you hate it. It means you love it.

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PENDING APPROVAL
Chris Jolley
Lauren Theisen
2/02/18 3:25am
I am literally speechless. This is, by far, the worst article, most asinine analysis & pathetic excuse for a column that I have EVER read. I am almost 50 years old and have been in the tech industry most of my life, yet this is the first time that I have ever been moved to “reply” to a story. Articles like this show just how far down that journalism has fallen. Please do everyone (including yourself) a favor and find another profession.

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PENDING APPROVAL
douglas
Lauren Theisen
2/02/18 12:09am
Did it happen at Michigan with Grant Perry? Where were you on that? How about Michigan being one of the top schools in terms of number of sexual assaults instances being reported in a year? While you were a student there? Excuse us for wanting evidence before trashing 2 coaches who have done so much for the university.

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PENDING APPROVAL
Sanchez Sanchez
Lauren Theisen
2/02/18 10:57am
Brian’s introspection:

MSU Sucks and they’re a bunch of stupid Rapists but UM is awesome. Grant perry is way different from Travis Walton, Lewan/Gibbons is way different from Appling/Payne. Everything is Brady Hoke’s fault.

Sorry, this stuff is happening at both schools. It sucks. The same writer for ESPN found that MSU athletes are not cut any slack in the courtroom. It’s an alleged coverup but there is tons of documentation available for review on public websites.

ESPN’s key source, Lauren Allswede has essentially backtracked on her statements and had no clue ESPN was going to take a 5 second sound bite and make that the entire source of their investigation.

This whole thing stinks. It’s a nationwide issue. Nassar is on par with Sandusky. Nobody came after the gymnastics and rowing coaches in sandusky’s case.

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PENDING APPROVAL
Jdm
Lauren Theisen
2/02/18 12:09am
I dont think that defending Tom Izzo who has nothing to do with Larry Nassar is “warped.” And tons of Michigan fans (molly qerim) have been going apeshit since this OTL thing broke. If it’s warped at all then its warped on all sides of the rivalry or non rivalry or whatever its called

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PENDING APPROVAL
Stevie Welles
Lauren Theisen
2/02/18 8:44am
And Brian Cook wrote a really good jam about U-M’s own shortcomings on this subject

You’ve just lost any credibility you had left.

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PENDING APPROVAL
Stevie Welles
Lauren Theisen
2/02/18 8:47am
a lot of people I love went to or still go to MSU

The sports blogger version of “I have a lot of black friends”.

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Hulk & UVa
Lauren Theisen
2/02/18 12:27am
There’s a significant (unless you have a narrative to keep, then disregard) independent report by Jones Day that investigated how MSU and specifically Mark Dantonio handled the sexual assault allegations last year. Turns out, Mark is the person the contacted the authorities before anyone (including the victim according to the Detroit Free Press) when a player told him what went down the night before. The findings are supported by phone and text records. But hey, who am I to stop a good witch hunt. Carry on, Lauren. Everyone else, here you go:

https://msu.edu/ourcommitment/_assets/files/Jones-Day-Report-June-5-2017.pdf

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Jdm
Lauren Theisen
2/02/18 12:22am
Brian cook’s “good jam” about looking inward is his same pseudointellectual anti-MSU bullshit he’s been posting there for years. I cant fathom how you would think that contributes to any productive conversation. It’s the michigan version of the graham couch article

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LooseGoose wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

I'm all for a well thought out rebuttal, but that was a very childish attack piece.

Michigan Woman.

Yeah, the whole thing was a really poor take. I honestly would love to see a good rebuttal to Valenti and Couch. I wish the writers at ESPN would respond to their criticisms, I think it would further the discussion but they seem like they are more interested in just tuning out the critics and patting their selves on the back.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:And the author gets her ass tore up in the comments....whoooo booy.....

You must not be reading the same comments I am. I'm not sure why I'm reading a comments section but everyone rebutting her is getting torn to pieces and MSU fans are being referred to as cult-ish.

Told you guys it didn't matter anymore. Just accept that this is our fate, regardless of what truths come out of it.

Honestly, this is it.  There was a pretty rational poster from PSU who said get ready, here it comes.   So, just to agree with you, this is going to get way worse for every single grad of MSU. I just read on twitter about a guy who said if he sees a person wearing MSU gear he will get in their face and scream that you support rapists and child molesters.    There are people out there like that.

DWags wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

You must not be reading the same comments I am. I'm not sure why I'm reading a comments section but everyone rebutting her is getting torn to pieces and MSU fans are being referred to as cult-ish.

Told you guys it didn't matter anymore. Just accept that this is our fate, regardless of what truths come out of it.

Honestly, this is it.  There was a pretty rational poster from PSU who said get ready, here it comes.   So, just to agree with you, this is going to get way worse for every single grad of MSU. I just read on twitter about a guy who said if he sees a person wearing MSU gear he will get in their face and scream that you support rapists and child molesters.    There are people out there like that.

I say a lot of shit online. I'm not doing anything I claim to be doing. Why do people take what random people type seriously?

InTenSity wrote:

DWags wrote:



Honestly, this is it.  There was a pretty rational poster from PSU who said get ready, here it comes.   So, just to agree with you, this is going to get way worse for every single grad of MSU. I just read on twitter about a guy who said if he sees a person wearing MSU gear he will get in their face and scream that you support rapists and child molesters.    There are people out there like that.

I say a lot of shit online. I'm not doing anything I claim to be doing. Why do people take what random people type seriously?

I know that guy won't do what he said, I'm saying that his attitude is prevalent throughout society.   It's not that I think anyone will be accosted because they're wearing a t-shirt, I just think many like this guy now feel that way about MSU.  Nothing but rapists and child molesters there.  As unfair as it is, MSU now has that national reputation.  ESPN has done work here.

I wear my MSU stuff. I've had a few people ask about it. Most don't really know what the hell's going on, but don't really see a connection with Izzo and Dantonio.

Not many people watch OTL.

InTenSity wrote:

DWags wrote:
Honestly, this is it.  There was a pretty rational poster from PSU who said get ready, here it comes.   So, just to agree with you, this is going to get way worse for every single grad of MSU. I just read on twitter about a guy who said if he sees a person wearing MSU gear he will get in their face and scream that you support rapists and child molesters.    There are people out there like that.

I say a lot of shit online. I'm not doing anything I claim to be doing. Why do people take what random people type seriously?

I agree.   I'd love for an internet blowhard to try that with me even at my age.

Here’s a nut job that threatens violence against MSU fans that wear shirts because we support rape.

https://twitter.com/ryanschuiling/status/959167373000527874

steveschneider wrote:Here’s a nut job that threatens violence against MSU fans that wear shirts because we support rape.

https://twitter.com/ryanschuiling/status/959167373000527874

That guy should be living in an underground bunker in Antarctica.

Rexrode: What I knew about an alleged 2010 rape at Michigan State

This is mostly good.

" and it was common knowledge on MSU fan message boards. But most of the world found out last week."

It's good to see that in print.

Floyd Robertson wrote:Rexrode: What I knew about an alleged 2010 rape at Michigan State

This is mostly good.

" and it was common knowledge on MSU fan message boards. But most of the world found out last week."

It's good to see that in print.

Just read it. It’s true this stuff was barely covered back then. I think this gives us good insight into why it wasn’t and the dilemma facing Izzo when it happened.

steveschneider wrote:

Floyd Robertson wrote:Rexrode: What I knew about an alleged 2010 rape at Michigan State

This is mostly good.

" and it was common knowledge on MSU fan message boards. But most of the world found out last week."

It's good to see that in print.

Just read it. It’s true this stuff was barely covered back then. I think this gives us good insight into why it wasn’t and the dilemma facing Izzo when it happened.

There's been a lot more discussed about the woman involved in the Payne/Appling incident elsewhere. Honestly I think most of it is irrelevant, but I do have one question to see if anyone here knows. I read elsewhere that she was a varsity athlete at another school that had transferred into MSU to participate in a new sport to her. That poster stated she was a Senior. Not that her age is an excuse at all but for me it casts a slightly different light than if this was some naive freshman girl away from home for the first time. Is that a fair thought or not?

LooseGoose wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Just read it. It’s true this stuff was barely covered back then. I think this gives us good insight into why it wasn’t and the dilemma facing Izzo when it happened.

There's been a lot more discussed about the woman involved in the Payne/Appling incident elsewhere. Honestly I think most of it is irrelevant, but I do have one question to see if anyone here knows. I read elsewhere that she was a varsity athlete at another school that had transferred into MSU to participate in a new sport to her. That poster stated she was a Senior. Not that her age is an excuse at all but for me it casts a slightly different light than if this was some naive freshman girl away from home for the first time. Is that a fair thought or not?

Also, I had a thought today that's a little related. There's been so many quality athletes that Izzo has kicked off the team and we don't know the reason why in a lot of the cases. I think these show that Izzo didn't just protect players to maintain a winning culture like OTL claims.

LooseGoose wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

Just read it. It’s true this stuff was barely covered back then. I think this gives us good insight into why it wasn’t and the dilemma facing Izzo when it happened.

There's been a lot more discussed about the woman involved in the Payne/Appling incident elsewhere. Honestly I think most of it is irrelevant, but I do have one question to see if anyone here knows. I read elsewhere that she was a varsity athlete at another school that had transferred into MSU to participate in a new sport to her. That poster stated she was a Senior. Not that her age is an excuse at all but for me it casts a slightly different light than if this was some naive freshman girl away from home for the first time. Is that a fair thought or not?

People just want to look at the "act" in a vacuum. They don't want to look at the events leading up to and after the act.

Jesus guys... you are reading comment sections and twitter?

Nordic wrote:Jesus guys... you are reading comment sections and twitter?

Effective today I've largely stopped reading comments. I've already learned that we've been tried and hanged in the court of public opinion.

Nordic wrote:Jesus guys... you are reading comment sections and twitter?

No. Most people that post there are morons. I read very little of them. They're certainly not even close to the "average person in the street". But then again the mob rarely is what it purports to be.

Nordic wrote:Jesus guys... you are reading comment sections and twitter?

like this guy?

Dear Coach Izzo: A story of a fan, a coach and a complicated season

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/sports/college/msu/mens-basketball/2018/02/03/dear-coach-izzo-story-fan-coach-and-complicated-season/302075002/?hootPostID=7d3ae300f19c36dcb42c129584d5dbdf

Nordic wrote:Jesus guys... you are reading comment sections and twitter?

Good point and thanks. It doesn’t do any of us any good to go down those worm holes.

My eldest nephew is 15 and he’s going to be a 4th gen Spartan and I know that now because he checks OTLs front page this morning and says there is no MSU to be seen.  

The last couple stories I've seen nationally have referred to Nasser as a US Gymnast Dr. The damage is done and MSU certainly deserves blame but it is refreshing to see some of the blame shared by other entities that missed the signs and warnings.

Actually kind of funny to see Sarah Spain defend/debate the merits of the OTL piece here.

https://twitter.com/Colin_Dilworth/status/959555342618316803

Floyd Robertson wrote:Actually kind of funny to see Sarah Spain defend/debate the merits of the OTL piece here.

https://twitter.com/Colin_Dilworth/status/959555342618316803

Sarahs takes are often hard to stomach considering her flip flopping. This is a woman who tried to sell her body to go to a sports game iirc. I've been avoiding ESPN like the plague but I still see some of them come through and will pause and see what their talking heads say about MSU. Out of all the female journo's they have I think Kate Fagan offered the most level headed approach although I am not sure anyones brought up the callous graphics and lumping together OTL pushed to her

Jim Brady is ESPNs public editor he’s on twitter. We should flood him with all the holes and bs in the OTL story. Btw Paula is getting slammed on twitter right now!

Of course she's getting shit on, Meyers statement:

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2018/02/04/travis-walton-michigan-state-tom-izzo/304820002/

I mean like we all said, ESPN dropped some serious allegations and even if they say that wasn't the purpose its what they did. They targeted some people not in a position to defend themselves but the ones that can.... sheeeeeet. .If I am ESPN/OTL I would just hold onto my butt.

MattyFresh wrote:Of course she's getting shit on, Meyers statement:

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2018/02/04/travis-walton-michigan-state-tom-izzo/304820002/

I mean like we all said, ESPN dropped some serious allegations and even if they say that wasn't the purpose its what they did. They targeted some people not in a position to defend themselves but the ones that can.... sheeeeeet. .If I am ESPN/OTL I would just hold onto my butt.

I'll be shocked if this does anything other than cement our image nationally as cult-like in our defense of our winning revenue sports programs.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:

MattyFresh wrote:Of course she's getting shit on, Meyers statement:

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2018/02/04/travis-walton-michigan-state-tom-izzo/304820002/

I mean like we all said, ESPN dropped some serious allegations and even if they say that wasn't the purpose its what they did. They targeted some people not in a position to defend themselves but the ones that can.... sheeeeeet. .If I am ESPN/OTL I would just hold onto my butt.

I'll be shocked if this does anything other than cement our image nationally as cult-like in our defense of our winning revenue sports programs.

Dude, even Solari retweeted against the otl piece. It’s a pretty legit hole in her reporting that got blown open.

You don't have to convince me Steve. I agree. Point is no one is ever going to change her mind, not the perception of Joe Public. We are tribalistic and blindly defending our institution to them.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:You don't have to convince me Steve. I agree. Point is no one is ever going to change her mind, not the perception of Joe Public. We are tribalistic and blindly defending our institution to them.

I’m not hoping to change her mind. I am hoping in finding out the truth justice is served. It’s going to be Spartans vs everybody, but who cares.

Oh, and I’d love it if she got sued.

Did her original article even mention the two witnesses that refute the alleged victims' claims? I forget, to be honest.

In the tweets of hers she says that the city no longer has those statements. So? Does she think those never happened? Is she accusing the police and city attorneys of making it up? Conspiring to obstruct justice? Either the fact that there were counter witnesses deserve as much mention as the witnesses that supported her, or she needs to come out and say what she's fucking insuating.

gHost Spartan wrote:

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:You don't have to convince me Steve. I agree. Point is no one is ever going to change her mind, not the perception of Joe Public. We are tribalistic and blindly defending our institution to them.

In a year or two - maybe even less - no one will even remember or care unless some really bad stuff comes out in the subsequent investigations.

This. Some of you are so wrapped up in this shit

So I've read some of the recent tweets from Paula Lavigne. She' still pushing the narrative of this being a culture of rape cover up. This rings pretty false when she is not going after the one coach who really seems to have covered these allegations up. Kathy Klages. Why isn't she being investigated? This is a rhetorical question.

There is a huge story here, but it's too bad ESPN is going for an even bigger story that is still void of facts. Hopefully someone someday actually dives into where the real problem lies.

The News doin work.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:The News doin work.

I don't have nearly as much of an issue with this story vs. the OTL report. The university fucked up on a massive scale. Joel Furguson should be shitcanned. The Fitzgerald review was woefully incomplete. And I'm glad they made no mention of Izzo or Dantonio.

There's a big old shit sandwich everyone is going to have to take a bite of in the real world where there is no innuendo of a Nassar, Izzo/Dantonio connection.

WhiteBoyHatcher wrote:The News doin work.

What's the gist of it, so I don't have to give them clicks?


I tend to think it's a pretty thick line between PSU and MSU. Which isn't to say that we don't deserve a lot shit over Nassar. But comparing PSU football to MSU gymnastics is like comparing the US government to a town council in Podunk, USA. As Spartans, we can't even imagine what it's like for a sport to have the importance that football has at PSU. And as much as we love Izzo and Dantonio, it's not even in the same stratosphere of how revered Paterno was (and still is) at PSU. He was one of the most powerful people on any college campus anywhere in the country. And his number one long time, bff and assistant was the one doing this stuff. There is overwhelming evidence that Paterno, the President, and other administrators knew what was going on to at least some degree.

On top of that, there is absolutely nothing that Sandusky did that can even remotely be considered part of his job, or a legitimate football coaching technique. There were not parents that were sometimes standing in the showers with Sandusky and their sons thinking that he was coaching their boys.

I'm sorry, but I don't see those kinds of differences as being a thin line.

I didn't read it to be honest. Did not want to click. I just found the prominent headline and catchy title to be very.....Detroit News of them.