Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates

Trapper Gus wrote:For those of you who are "fast car" people.

https://www.autonews.com/cars-concepts/chevy-corvette-e-ray-quickest-vette-yet?utm_source=breaking-news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20230117&utm_content=hero-headline

Pay walled.

Did it say how much the eRay will weigh? Acceleration is fun, but what about handling?

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:For those of you who are "fast car" people.

https://www.autonews.com/cars-concepts/chevy-corvette-e-ray-quickest-vette-yet?utm_source=breaking-news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20230117&utm_content=hero-headline

Pay walled.

Did it say how much the eRay will weigh? Acceleration is fun, but what about handling?

For me too, this is the insider bible, but you have to pay for it.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Pay walled.

Did it say how much the eRay will weigh? Acceleration is fun, but what about handling?

For me too, this is the insider bible, but you have to pay for it.

So you posted a link to an article that you don't have access to read?

Interesting choice.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

For me too, this is the insider bible, but you have to pay for it.

So you posted a link to an article that you don't have access to read?

Interesting choice.

Headlines are what drives the internets, dude.

Interesting that "Chevy" is adding electric to try to match BEV accelerations.

Electric Cars' Turning Point May Be Happening as U.S. Sales Numbers Start Climb

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39998609/electric-car-sales-usa/

EVs Made Up 10% of All New Cars Sold Last Year - China, Europe drive electric-vehicle expansion as U.S. gains traction

https://www.wsj.com/articles/evs-made-up-10-of-all-new-cars-sold-last-year-11673818385

Presented without comment, except, that's a lot of dough.

Report: Electric vehicle sales could cost Michigan roads $500M by 2030

Floyd Robertson wrote:Presented without comment, except, that's a lot of dough.

Report: Electric vehicle sales could cost Michigan roads $500M by 2030

While I question the accuracy of this report, as I think this is the same group that stretched the facts with a negative report about the costs of EV ownership, it is absolutely clear that over time all the funding for roads at a State or Federal level will need to be changed.

I'm hoping we will move beyond a "use tax" to just using an income tax since everyone benefits from having roads.

https://jalopnik.com/driving-100-miles-in-an-ev-is-now-more-expensive-than-i-1850031874

https://jalopnik.com/lithium-mining-for-evs-could-destroy-the-planet-if-we-d-1850031096

TravelinMan wrote:https://jalopnik.com/driving-100-miles-in-an-ev-is-now-more-expensive-than-i-1850031874

This report is an update from a report from last year and the same one that Floyd Robertson linked to.

For some odd reason it includes the milage driving to a charger and the driver's time as costs of EV ownership but doesn't include the milage driving to a gas station and the driver's time as costs for ICE vehicles.

It is just a bit biased, but accurate if you accepted all its kind of crazy assumptions.

TravelinMan wrote:https://jalopnik.com/lithium-mining-for-evs-could-destroy-the-planet-if-we-d-1850031096

Headline is a bit alarmist, and the report really is about how the modes of transportation in the US could be changed to lessen the use of cars, but it's point about a "gold rush" on lithium has merit.

https://www.climateandcommunity.org/_files/ugd/d6378b_3b79520a747948618034a2b19b9481a0.pdf

Here is another article, more focused on the supply chain.

https://www.bcg.com/publications/2022/the-lithium-supply-crunch-doesnt-have-to-stall-electric-cars

edit - and another article which says there are enough minerals & net pollution will be lower.

https://apnews.com/article/science-green-technology-climate-and-environment-renewable-energy-141761657a8e7a5627a0e49e601dd48e?utm_source=ForYou&utm_medium=HomePage&utm_id=Taboola

RENO, Nev. (AP) — General Motors Co. has conditionally agreed to invest $650 million in Lithium Americas Corp. in a deal that will give GM exclusive access to the first phase of a mine planned near the Nevada-Oregon line with the largest known source of lithium in the U.S.

https://apnews.com/article/technology-lithium-americas-corp-general-motors-co-reno-nevada-c9d5c6b57ac2a9f96d1ed0bb6bd4eaf9

KEWEENAW COUNTY, MI – Three Michigan men were recently sentenced after they were caught stealing hundreds of pounds of copper from an abandoned mine in the Upper Peninsula.

The copper thieves were first busted at the copper mine in Central in 2020 but were sentenced this month.

Honestly, I thought these old mines were tapped out.

https://www.mlive.com/news/2023/01/3-men-broke-into-abandoned-up-mine-took-hundreds-of-pounds-of-copper-dnr-says.html

TravelinMan wrote:https://jalopnik.com/lithium-mining-for-evs-could-destroy-the-planet-if-we-d-1850031096

So here is Car & Driver debunking this study big time, from the first time it was published.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38043667/study-electric-cars-higher-cost-questions/

My favorite stupidity in the study, and there are many, but this one stands out, is the assumption that someone's time is worth how much they are paid to do whatever it is they do to make money. Thus, the time to plug is you EV at home is charged at the rate per hour which equals $70k/year for 40-hour weeks.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:https://jalopnik.com/lithium-mining-for-evs-could-destroy-the-planet-if-we-d-1850031096

So here is Car & Driver debunking this study big time, from the first time it was published.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38043667/study-electric-cars-higher-cost-questions/

My favorite stupidity in the study, and there are many, but this one stands out, is the assumption that someone's time is worth how much they are paid to do whatever it is they do to make money. Thus, the time to plug is you EV at home is charged at the rate per hour which equals $70k/year for 40-hour weeks.

I don't know... the older I get, the more my time is worth.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

So here is Car & Driver debunking this study big time, from the first time it was published.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38043667/study-electric-cars-higher-cost-questions/

My favorite stupidity in the study, and there are many, but this one stands out, is the assumption that someone's time is worth how much they are paid to do whatever it is they do to make money. Thus, the time to plug is you EV at home is charged at the rate per hour which equals $70k/year for 40-hour weeks.

I don't know... the older I get, the more my time is worth.

Just like Einstein said, time is relative.

Hydrogen Fuel Cells have not been on my EV radar due to the complexity and cost, but it appears that was my error.

Looks like the Japanese companies in particular are going this way, at least as part of their marketing strategy, and that Fuel Cell costs are dropping.

https://apnews.com/article/honda-motor-co-ltd-general-motors-ohio-japan-business-84e21ede600b5e0d6fcb992877ddcedb

https://www.axios.com/2023/02/06/electric-car-ev-road-trip

What's happening: My husband Bill and I are sick of winter in Michigan, and decided we'd rather work remotely in Florida for the month of February.

We'll drive to the Sunshine State and back — 2,700 miles or so — in a Kia EV6 on loan from the automaker's press fleet.

wimps - sure, go down to the fascist state.

https://www.axios.com/2023/02/07/electric-car-batteries-solar-power-storage

https://www.axios.com/2023/02/08/electric-car-charging-explained

https://www.axios.com/2023/02/08/electric-vehicle-charging-stations-american-cities

https://www.bridgemi.com/business-watch/report-michigan-still-lags-electric-vehicle-charging-stations

Musk has designed a truck that can barely clear a curb.

[tw]1628570453995589635?s=20[/tw]

Gotta improve the charging infrastructure if this EV thing is going to happen.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/broken-machines-long-waits-reality-charging-electric-vehicle

TravelinMan wrote:Gotta improve the charging infrastructure if this EV thing is going to happen.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/broken-machines-long-waits-reality-charging-electric-vehicle

Agree. I often wonder how people can travel long distances with EVs given the spotty availability of charging stations.

Ideally, I would like a vehicle that I could feed coal to while driving.

Turtleneck wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:Gotta improve the charging infrastructure if this EV thing is going to happen.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/broken-machines-long-waits-reality-charging-electric-vehicle

Agree. I often wonder how people can travel long distances with EVs given the spotty availability of charging stations.

Ideally, I would like a vehicle that I could feed coal to while driving.

I gotchu, fam.

https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/but-wait-theres-more/a1812701/oldsmobile-was-powered-coal-burning-turbine-engine/

I am going to convert my car to coal. This is great.

Turtleneck wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:Gotta improve the charging infrastructure if this EV thing is going to happen.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/broken-machines-long-waits-reality-charging-electric-vehicle

Agree. I often wonder how people can travel long distances with EVs given the spotty availability of charging stations.

Ideally, I would like a vehicle that I could feed coal to while driving.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=apps+tp+find+EV+charging&form=ANNTH1&refig=e15e937945a945bf89ac150d616936d8

https://apnews.com/article/ev-electric-vehicle-autos-green-global-warming-a2ee4b2154aca3fc05fc85ce689e0eda

Odd.

Not one EMobile on the list?

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/03/heres-what-redwood-learned-in-its-first-year-of-ev-battery-recycling/

Redwood says it recovered 95 percent of the lithium, cobalt, nickel, copper, and other metals from these packs.

https://apnews.com/article/electric-vehicles-cold-weather-battery-ev-6d86b7aa19e233d5dcc4d2c9abb193ed?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=TopNews&utm_campaign=position_01

https://apnews.com/article/nissan-electric-vehicles-rare-earths-92e953edca010476124c45a8544f5b38

Manufacturers working to reduce costs of EV's

If fossil fuels produce 60% of U.S. electricity, do EVs make any long-term difference? Do I need to wait until the solar cars to hit the market, or should I get a car that is an electric/pedal hybrid?

Turtleneck wrote:If fossil fuels produce 60% of U.S. electricity, do EVs make any long-term difference? Do I need to wait until the solar cars to hit the market, or should I get a car that is an electric/pedal hybrid?

The controls on fossil fuel power generation make it less polluting and the power efficiency of generation and of EVs mean they use less energy than a ICE. Also there is the 40% of electricity from less polluting generation sources.

Meh, I think I am better off with an old Dodge charger that runs on burning Drano.

This study gets me a little wound up.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/03/why-its-time-to-officially-get-over-your-ev-range-anxiety/

I think they make some great points. Nearly 38% of people in the survey could survive with a small EV. They never travel more than 100-140 miles from their home.

It also makes the (valid) point that if you're only going on a long journey once or twice a year, it's cheaper to keep your small EV and just rent a car when needed.

That's all great. Makes perfect sense.

What car are we going to rent when these states ban ICE sales in 7-12 years, when municipalities ban ICE cars from driving through certain sections of town, and manufacturers have given up development of ICE vehicles?

I like EVs. I want them to get better and become more common. But every tool has it's purpose. Legislative bans are not the way to go. It's great that 40% of us can have a small EV, but the other 60% are going to need solutions, too.

TravelinMan wrote:This study gets me a little wound up.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/03/why-its-time-to-officially-get-over-your-ev-range-anxiety/

I think they make some great points. Nearly 38% of people in the survey could survive with a small EV. They never travel more than 100-140 miles from their home.

It also makes the (valid) point that if you're only going on a long journey once or twice a year, it's cheaper to keep your small EV and just rent a car when needed.

That's all great. Makes perfect sense.

What car are we going to rent when these states ban ICE sales in 7-12 years, when municipalities ban ICE cars from driving through certain sections of town, and manufacturers have given up development of ICE vehicles?

I like EVs. I want them to get better and become more common. But every tool has it's purpose. Legislative bans are not the way to go. It's great that 40% of us can have a small EV, but the other 60% are going to need solutions, too.

The laws will change if EV development does not resolve the charging time / charger availability and manufactures do not provide vehicles with higher range.

Just as renewable generation laws have supercharged development, driving renewable generation costs way down, the EV laws are superchargers EV technology development.

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:This study gets me a little wound up.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/03/why-its-time-to-officially-get-over-your-ev-range-anxiety/

I think they make some great points. Nearly 38% of people in the survey could survive with a small EV. They never travel more than 100-140 miles from their home.

It also makes the (valid) point that if you're only going on a long journey once or twice a year, it's cheaper to keep your small EV and just rent a car when needed.

That's all great. Makes perfect sense.

What car are we going to rent when these states ban ICE sales in 7-12 years, when municipalities ban ICE cars from driving through certain sections of town, and manufacturers have given up development of ICE vehicles?

I like EVs. I want them to get better and become more common. But every tool has it's purpose. Legislative bans are not the way to go. It's great that 40% of us can have a small EV, but the other 60% are going to need solutions, too.

The laws will change if EV development does not resolve the charging time / charger availability and manufactures do not provide vehicles with higher range.

Just as renewable generation laws have supercharged development, driving renewable generation costs way down, the EV laws are superchargers EV technology development.

That's great. And then the auto manufacturers will be expected to turn on a dime and everyone will bitch that the price of new cars is through the roof.

Respectfully disagree with the he premise that a shift in road funding isn’t a bg deal. Michigan has a major road tax problem in its near future. Overall fuel mileage has improved. Hybrids have reduced gas tax income. EV’s are just accelerating the issue even as people hold on to their cars/trucks longer.

MI has a goal of having 50,000 EV’s (private/government/business) by 2025. If that goal is met and those vehicles get driven 25,000 mile per year that’s 1.25M miles. If they are replacing vehicles that average 25 mpg those 50,000 EV’s create an $8.6M loss in fuel revenue.

That can be replaced with an additional annual road tax for EV’s. Based on my road sales job, I have driven an average of 40,000 miles per year. Somewhere there’s a geek with algorithms to factor low use and high mileage drivers to arrive at an equitable annual EV fee for passenger vehicles to replace gas tax.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

The laws will change if EV development does not resolve the charging time / charger availability and manufactures do not provide vehicles with higher range.

Just as renewable generation laws have supercharged development, driving renewable generation costs way down, the EV laws are superchargers EV technology development.

That's great. And then the auto manufacturers will be expected to turn on a dime and everyone will bitch that the price of new cars is through the roof.

The 100% replacement rate for the car fleet of the US is about 15 years, so ICE vehicles will be around for quite awhile. EV's are a disruptive technology which effects are not understood yet, so what will happen is pure speculation.

A another disruptive technology hitting vehicles is software. In terms of accounting costs for manufacturers for vehicles software is overtaking material costs, and vehicle manufacturer's managements are seeing dollar signs via the licensing of software, following other industries models. How this plays out remains to be seen, but modifying laws regarding this are not out of the question.