Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates

Trapper Gus wrote:600 mile range, 9 minute charging time, high cost...

https://interestingengineering.com/energy/samsungs-ev-battery-600-mile-charge-in-9-mins

Motown Spartan wrote:EV Deniers: poor range and too long to charge.
Samsung: 600 miles and 9 minutes.
TM: but it only lasts 20 years, that’s dumb.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:600 mile range, 9 minute charging time, high cost...

https://interestingengineering.com/energy/samsungs-ev-battery-600-mile-charge-in-9-mins

In what? In a pickup truck? A large SUV? A Chevy Bolt?

And only 20 years? That’s kind of silly.

TravelinMan wrote:

Motown Spartan wrote:EV Deniers: poor range and too long to charge.
Samsung: 600 miles and 9 minutes.
TM: but it only lasts 20 years, that’s dumb.

It's a fanboi article.  It doesn't say what type of vehicle this stuff has been tested in - which you know means it was some sub-compact shitbox and not something that Americans would actually drive.

That "9 minutes recharge" is from 20-80%, not a full charge.  So you're not getting 600 miles out of your eco-bean death trap anyway.

And yeah, 20 years ain't much.  

So sure, it's "progress" and it's moving in the direction of Trapper's dreams, but we're still a long ways away from prime time.

Edit:  I don't mind EVs.  I think they have promise.  But stop pretending that they're something they're not.  

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

In what? In a pickup truck? A large SUV? A Chevy Bolt?

And only 20 years? That’s kind of silly.

All of the above. Smaller and lighter than existing batteries with over double the storage capacity means for the same weight the vehicles have over double the range.

20 years equals one million miles. How many ICE's driven a million miles are still on the road without an engine rebuild or replacement?

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

It's a fanboi article.  It doesn't say what type of vehicle this stuff has been tested in - which you know means it was some sub-compact shitbox and not something that Americans would actually drive.

That "9 minutes recharge" is from 20-80%, not a full charge.  So you're not getting 600 miles out of your eco-bean death trap anyway.

And yeah, 20 years ain't much.  

So sure, it's "progress" and it's moving in the direction of Trapper's dreams, but we're still a long ways away from prime time.

Edit:  I don't mind EVs.  I think they have promise.  But stop pretending that they're something they're not.  

Thus speaks the non-technical guy.

Sure they are testing in vehicles, but that is like step 250 out of 300 steps.  Since these are going in very expensive vehicles we are talking the BMWs, Porsche(sp) and eCorvettees types.

The battery capacity was tested in the labs, as charge capacity, cycles and all the other requirements are much cheaper to test just testing batteries with scientific load profiles.

That type of testing incudes tempature/humidity/ pressure and other environmental requirements.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

All of the above. Smaller and lighter than existing batteries with over double the storage capacity means for the same weight the vehicles have over double the range.

20 years equals one million miles. How many ICE's driven a million miles are still on the road without an engine rebuild or replacement?

50,000 miles a year? Gosh, and I thought I drove a lot.

EVs are fine, as is. You can stick to facts without embellishing everything. It's OK.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Thus speaks the non-technical guy.

Sure they are testing in vehicles, but that is like step 250 out of 300 steps.  Since these are going in very expensive vehicles we are talking the BMWs, Porsche(sp) and eCorvettees types.

The battery capacity was tested in the labs, as charge capacity, cycles and all the other requirements are much cheaper to test just testing batteries with scientific load profiles.

That type of testing incudes tempature/humidity/ pressure and other environmental requirements.

Non technical guy?  Sweetheart, I'd put my automotive knowledge against yours any day.

Lab tests are not real world tests.  I'll bet the lab test on a F-150 Lightning is pretty good.  Until it's February, and you're going somewhere with two other adults, and you're towing something.  Then those lab numbers start to look pretty optimistic.   Just sayin'...

Trapper Gus wrote:

TravelinMan wrote:

Non technical guy?  Sweetheart, I'd put my automotive knowledge against yours any day.

Lab tests are not real world tests.  I'll bet the lab test on a F-150 Lightning is pretty good.  Until it's February, and you're going somewhere with two other adults, and you're towing something.  Then those lab numbers start to look pretty optimistic.   Just sayin'...

Your correct about lab tests not being real world.   Testing vehicle components at minus 40 degrees for 100 hours or 85 degrees C for the same amount, cycling them from -40 to +85 in 2 hours for two weeks is defiantly not real world.

As you have already pointed out testing for the equivalent of one million hours is overkill, too.

Car companies require parts to be cycled way beyond any real world conditions to find weaknesses.

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:

Your correct about lab tests not being real world.   Testing vehicle components at minus 40 degrees for 100 hours or 85 degrees C for the same amount, cycling them from -40 to +85 in 2 hours for two weeks is defiantly not real world.

As you have already pointed out testing for the equivalent of one million hours is overkill, too.

Car companies require parts to be cycled way beyond any real world conditions to find weaknesses.

I'm quite aware, thank you.  

You've made a fool of yourself many times over in this thread already.  I'd think you'd treat me with a bit more respect by now.  

Robert J Sakimano wrote:saw someone yesterday riding what looked to be an e-bike.

or a e-moped.

still not sure of the difference.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:saw someone yesterday riding what looked to be an e-bike.

or a e-moped.

still not sure of the difference.

TravelinMan wrote:And another automaker slowly reversing course.

https://autogear.pt/en/audi-admits-that-the-end-of-combustion-engines-will-be-delayed/

Graham, a South Carolina Republican, requested the hearing. He pointed out several times the automotive industry’s importance to the state. South Carolina is a national leader in vehicle assembly and the top tire exporter in the country, according to the state’s Department of Commerce.

Graham said the future of vehicle manufacturing is in electric vehicles and urged policies to remain competitive in the global automobile market.

His position was out of step from many in his party.

Republicans have voiced opposition to increased electric vehicle manufacturing and many oppose President Joe Biden’s goal of having 50% of vehicle sales be electric by 2030. Former President Donald Trump opposes Biden’s support of electric vehicles and said it would ruin the economies of automaker states.

But Graham, a Trump ally and a staunchly conservative lawmaker, embraced the idea of U.S. electric vehicle manufacturing and looked to strengthen U.S. infrastructure.

“So the bottom line is: This is coming, whether we like it or not,” Graham said. “And I think there’s an upside to it, to be honest with you.”

According to Goldman Sachs (via Yahoo Finance), the estimated battery cost for last year is a bit higher at $151/kWh, but what’s important here is that the same estimates show a further 40% decline in battery prices between 2023 and 2025, opening the door for much more affordable EVs that will finally undercut their gasoline counterparts and, at the same time, turn a profit for their makers. A study from the International Council On Clean Transportation previously showed that EVs will cost the same as ICE vehicles by 2029 thanks to an oversupply of lithium.

Trapper Gus wrote:Here is another "rah rah" article about inexpensive Chinese EVs.

Price is $10k to $12k

Elon claims they have every bit as much quality as US cars...

Given the quality of Teslas (poor) I'm not seeing that as a ringing endorsement.

As a 35 year veteran of the US automotive supply base I have been part of the US OEMs raising their form, fit & functional quality, forced to by Japanese vehicle quality in the most competitive market on the globe.

Also have experience with how the Chinese think about quality and their buyer beware markets.

Even at the almost throw away price these cars will brand the Chinese products as not worth owning in the US markets unless they have a sudden come to Jesus moment on form, fit & function quality.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/chinese-electric-car-byd-seagull-us/

TravelinMan wrote:

Trapper Gus wrote:Here is another "rah rah" article about inexpensive Chinese EVs.

Price is $10k to $12k

Elon claims they have every bit as much quality as US cars...

Given the quality of Teslas (poor) I'm not seeing that as a ringing endorsement.

As a 35 year veteran of the US automotive supply base I have been part of the US OEMs raising their form, fit & functional quality, forced to by Japanese vehicle quality in the most competitive market on the globe.

Also have experience with how the Chinese think about quality and their buyer beware markets.

Even at the almost throw away price these cars will brand the Chinese products as not worth owning in the US markets unless they have a sudden come to Jesus moment on form, fit & function quality.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/chinese-electric-car-byd-seagull-us/

Well, given the quality of Elon’s cars, that’s not saying much.