Re: Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates

by **Robert J Sakimano** Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:24 pm

Jake from State Farm wrote:
Zurn wrote:Funny how nobody in this thread actually owns an EV.

I have an ebike and a hybrid pickup, do those count? I also have an electric chainsaw and an electric golf cart and an electric lawnmower

our toaster is electric. Coffee maker, too.

I brought my Dad's leaf blower up after he died. It's electric - I got a big ass orange extension cord. It does a good job.

by **Trapper Gus** Sat Jul 06, 2024 7:40 am

Jake from State Farm wrote:
Zurn wrote:Funny how nobody in this thread actually owns an EV.

I have an ebike and a hybrid pickup, do those count? I also have an electric chainsaw and an electric golf cart and an electric lawnmower

Yes, the hybrid truck forsure.

I have a hybrid SUV, one of two I have owned, and 2 electric chain saws.

FWIT I had a large pine tree cut down last year and the crew that did it used electric chain saws. They told me there were much lighter and easier to use.

by TravelinMan Sat Jul 06, 2024 9:31 am

Trapper Gus wrote:
Jake from State Farm wrote:

I have an ebike and a hybrid pickup, do those count? I also have an electric chainsaw and an electric golf cart and an electric lawnmower

Yes, the hybrid truck forsure.

I have a hybrid SUV, one of two I have owned, and 2 electric chain saws.

FWIT I had a large pine tree cut down last year and the crew that did it used electric chain saws. They told me there were much lighter and easier to use.

I like my electric chain saw. I was very impressed with it. I only use a chainsaw a few times a year, so it’s nice not having to deal with stale gas. Also, the battery only lasts a couple of hours, which is about as long as my body really wants to clear brush. Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 24 502811600

Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 24 502811600

by **Trapper Gus** Sat Jul 06, 2024 10:27 am

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Yes, the hybrid truck forsure.

I have a hybrid SUV, one of two I have owned, and 2 electric chain saws.

FWIT I had a large pine tree cut down last year and the crew that did it used electric chain saws. They told me there were much lighter and easier to use.

I like my electric chain saw. I was very impressed with it. I only use a chainsaw a few times a year, so it’s nice not having to deal with stale gas. Also, the battery only lasts a couple of hours, which is about as long as my body really wants to clear brush.

I've had one for about 15 years, and just got a second one, chain saw on a post for trimming branches which is 15 years newer and works 75% better than my first one.

I have about 3 gas chain saws that I almost never use.

The guys who cut down the tree recharge their batteries from the truck & of course carry several batteries per chain saw.

This is how I know your crusade to save ICE vehicles is doomed.

by TravelinMan Sat Jul 06, 2024 11:47 am

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

I like my electric chain saw. I was very impressed with it. I only use a chainsaw a few times a year, so it’s nice not having to deal with stale gas. Also, the battery only lasts a couple of hours, which is about as long as my body really wants to clear brush.

I've had one for about 15 years, and just got a second one, chain saw on a post for trimming branches which is 15 years newer and works 75% better than my first one.

I have about 3 gas chain saws that I almost never use.

The guys who cut down the tree recharge their batteries from the truck & of course carry several batteries per chain saw.

This is how I know your crusade to save ICE vehicles is doomed.

by Zurn Sat Jul 06, 2024 3:10 pm

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I brought my Dad's leaf blower up after he died. It's electric - I got a big ass orange extension cord. It does a good job.

If only they would come up with an extension cord powered car ....

by **Jake from State Farm** Sat Jul 06, 2024 3:19 pm

Zurn wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:
I brought my Dad's leaf blower up after he died. It's electric - I got a big ass orange extension cord. It does a good job.

If only they would come up with an extension cord powered car ......

No reason to, they make some that run on batteries and they have plenty of range for most people. But I suppose you could use an extension cord if you didn't want to park right next to a charger.

by **Trapper Gus** Sun Jul 07, 2024 7:48 am

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

I've had one for about 15 years, and just got a second one, chain saw on a post for trimming branches which is 15 years newer and works 75% better than my first one.

I have about 3 gas chain saws that I almost never use.

The guys who cut down the tree recharge their batteries from the truck & of course carry several batteries per chain saw.

This is how I know your crusade to save ICE vehicles is doomed.

Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 24 1811933421

Back when I started getting interested in the use of renewable electricity generating sources the costs per kW for renewable generation were way higher than fossil fuel or even nuclear generation. Now, about 15 years later, the first choice for new electricity generation is renewable generation, because renewable generation is less expensive than fossil fuel or nuclear generation.

How did that happen?

It is because there hadn't been a concerted effort to capitalize and develop renewable generation. Once that effort was started the natural advantage of not using a fuel that had to be paid for exerted itself, to the point, now, that during the last few periods of high renewable electricity output the prices for electricity in at least Europe have been negative. Power companies are paying people to use electricity. (edit - this for all the Star Trek nurds out there is the "Star Trek economy", where costs have disappeared, and replicators are used to create material goods, and with 3D printers we are starting down that path)

EV's have a similar history of not attracting capital for development & a similar advantage, both for vehicle costs as battery development pushed down the costs of batteries and comparing the complexities and costs of an ICE power train verses an electric power train. (edit - I sometimes think I am the last optimist, believing that "tomorrow" will be better than "today)

PS - I'm still waiting for someone to technically crack the Cold Fusion technical issues. Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 24 969504605

Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 24 969504605

by **Robert J Sakimano** Sun Jul 07, 2024 10:59 am

watching le Tour this morning (see also, every morning) - they're not riding e-bikes.

by **Trapper Gus** Sun Jul 07, 2024 11:34 am

Have you guys seen those pedal party trollies?

Maybe we could replace cars with those?

by **Robert J Sakimano** Sun Jul 07, 2024 4:31 pm

Trapper Gus wrote:Have you guys seen those pedal party trollies?

Maybe we could replace cars with those?

I know they're big with the Woo Girls in the gentrified area of Nashville.

by **Trapper Gus** Sun Jul 07, 2024 6:01 pm

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:Have you guys seen those pedal party trollies?

Maybe we could replace cars with those?
I know they're big with the Woo Girls in the gentrified area of Nashville.

What's a Woo Girl?

by TravelinMan Sun Jul 07, 2024 8:52 pm

Trapper Gus wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: I know they're big with the Woo Girls in the gentrified area of Nashville.

What's a Woo Girl?

Girls that yell “woooo!” See How I Met Your Mother.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:53 am

Trapper Gus wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: I know they're big with the Woo Girls in the gentrified area of Nashville.

What's a Woo Girl?

those silly girls with cut-off jeans, cowboy boots, cowboy hats that yell "woooooo" at other Woo Girls in the middle of whatever event they're participating in.

they also have fake tans and like really.. REALLY... bad music... and there are usually American flag or red/white/blue regalia somewhere nearby.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Mon Jul 08, 2024 4:08 pm

y'all don't take your e-bikes to Mackinac Island..

you can thank the 'woke' for this.

LANSING, Mich. — The one spot you cannot drive a car in Michigan is getting a speed limit.

Governor Gretchen Whitmer signed a bill to limit bicycles and electric-powered bicycles to 15 miles per hour while riding on M-185. Also known as Lake Shore Drive, the highway loops around Mackinac Island in just over 8 miles.

The Governor's Office says the speed limit is needed as new electric bicycles can reach speeds of 28 miles, posing safety hazards for other bicyclists, horses, and pedestrians.

Michigan's last unregulated highway is getting a speed limit

khakis are still allowed.. in fact, they're encouraged.

by TravelinMan Mon Jul 08, 2024 7:15 pm

Robert J Sakimano wrote:y'all don't take your e-bikes to Mackinac Island..

you can thank the 'woke' for this.

LANSING, Mich. — The one spot you cannot drive a car in Michigan is getting a speed limit.

Governor Gretchen Whitmer signed a bill to limit bicycles and electric-powered bicycles to 15 miles per hour while riding on M-185. Also known as Lake Shore Drive, the highway loops around Mackinac Island in just over 8 miles.

The Governor's Office says the speed limit is needed as new electric bicycles can reach speeds of 28 miles, posing safety hazards for other bicyclists, horses, and pedestrians.

Michigan's last unregulated highway is getting a speed limit

khakis are still allowed.. in fact, they're encouraged.

Sounds like I can still take it. I just can’t ride like a complete yob. I can live with that.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon Jul 08, 2024 9:40 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:y'all don't take your e-bikes to Mackinac Island..

you can thank the 'woke' for this.

Michigan's last unregulated highway is getting a speed limit

khakis are still allowed.. in fact, they're encouraged.

Sounds like I can still take it. I just can’t ride like a complete yob. I can live with that.

Mackinaw Island allows peddle assist only. Full electric bikes are not allowed. Not that I think you are going there, but still, others might.

by TravelinMan Mon Jul 08, 2024 9:42 pm

Trapper Gus wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:

Sounds like I can still take it. I just can’t ride like a complete yob. I can live with that.

Mackinaw Island allows peddle assist only. Full electric bikes are not allowed. Not that I think you are going there, but still, others might.

So my eBike is fancy and has both modes. Will they let me take it and just not use the full assist mode? Or because it has the capability, will they ban it?

by **Trapper Gus** Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:21 pm

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Mackinaw Island allows peddle assist only. Full electric bikes are not allowed. Not that I think you are going there, but still, others might.

So my eBike is fancy and has both modes. Will they let me take it and just not use the full assist mode? Or because it has the capability, will they ban it?

I don't know. Contact the Mackinaw Island police department.

by **Trapper Gus** Tue Jul 09, 2024 7:29 am

The charger network is the limited factor for EV sales at the moment, and that doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon.

Consumers Energy will help install 1,500 public fast-chargers by 2030
That’s a 44% increase in the number of public chargers in Michigan
The state remains far behind its goal of installing 100,000 public chargers by 2030

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/consumers-dte-expand-ev-charger-network-michigan

by **Jake from State Farm** Thu Jul 11, 2024 5:28 pm

GM to retool Lansing Grand River plant to electric vehicle facility

Sounds like a waste of money if nobody is going to be buying the cars. /s

by **Robert J Sakimano** Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:06 am

are e-bikes basically glorified mopeds?

I feel like I asked this question before but not sure I got clarification.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed Jul 17, 2024 9:40 am

Interesting thread from TOB

https://247sports.com/college/michigan-state/board/93/contents/buy-a-tesla-electric-car-233825570/?page=1

We wouldn't have seen a thread about buying electric on a sports board a few years ago.

by TravelinMan Wed Jul 17, 2024 9:41 am

Trapper Gus wrote:Interesting thread from TOB

https://247sports.com/college/michigan-state/board/93/contents/buy-a-tesla-electric-car-233825570/?page=1

I can't read 10 pages of people insulting each other's moms. What was the interesting part?

by **Trapper Gus** Wed Jul 17, 2024 9:59 am

TravelinMan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:Interesting thread from TOB

https://247sports.com/college/michigan-state/board/93/contents/buy-a-tesla-electric-car-233825570/?page=1

I can't read 10 pages of people insulting each other's moms. What was the interesting part?

The first 9 pages are 95% about EV's, the 10th is getting a bit TOB'ish.

I find it interesting that they are having this discussion at all.

by **Trapper Gus** Wed Jul 17, 2024 12:00 pm

Looks like at least one oil company is seeing a chance to make money on EV's...

https://www.shell.us/motorist/electric-vehicle-charging.html?&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=%7BCampaignName%7D&utm_content=%7BAdGroupName%7D&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw1920BhA3EiwAJT3lSbmpXJewKwwa0XM4qBXyP1R2SAMp1Heug6XKolTgQNm6Yol7Vn62sRoChpwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

edit - some more on fast charger network development...

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/07/19/wireless-ev-charging-is-waiting-in-the-wings-as-public-fast-charging-network-accelerates/

by **Trapper Gus** Wed Jul 24, 2024 7:31 am

Bridge Michigan EV road trip in one of the least "road trip worthy" EV's...

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/ev-road-trip-update-skipping-slots-gambling-battery-range

by **Jake from State Farm** Wed Jul 24, 2024 11:55 am

Chevy just sent me a voucher worth $50 if I go test drive an Equinox EV. I'll let you know what I think about it.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Thu Jul 25, 2024 7:49 pm

passed what looked to be a retired couple today riding what I suspect were e-bikes.

by TravelinMan Thu Jul 25, 2024 11:23 pm

Saw this and thought of Bob:

https://interestingengineering.com/science/paris-olympics-2024-cycle-motor-doping

by **Robert J Sakimano** Fri Jul 26, 2024 5:31 am

TravelinMan wrote:Saw this and thought of Bob:

https://interestingengineering.com/science/paris-olympics-2024-cycle-motor-doping

oh, yeah - not a new narrative when it comes to professional cycling.

The UCI has been inspecting bikes for years (they also have many other specs that bikes must meet in UCI sanctioned events from a minimun weight to the length of of the saddle). This is probably more of an IOC requirement in Paris, which is a good thing..

by **Trapper Gus** Sun Jul 28, 2024 10:21 am

Just some spitballing about the state of EV car addaption roadblocks.

Number one issue right now is either the charging networks or price, I'm chosing the charging networks.

Range and the charging networks and price are all related to each other. A larger capacity battery, ie more range, adds to the cost and thus the price. Watching the research there are improvements coming for the battery tech but now seem to be more evolutionary than revolutionary, so expect range to settle into the 300 to 500 miles depending on price, unless revolutionary battery tech, ie higher kw per pound at lower cost, occurs.

In any case, at any reasonable range, the availability of "public" charging seems to me to be the highest marketing limiting factor right now.

On the charger network front there are developments which are making a rapid expansion of charging stations happening sooner, rather than later, seem likely. The standardization of the chargers to the Tesla supercharger standard which happened last year but will take a few years to complete simplifies the type of chargers to add to the network. Also, that a charger is much simpler to install than a gas pump has all sorts of traditional businesses which would never install a gas pump installing chargers to draw in customers. Further the charging speed of superchargers is reducing charging times from hours to minutes. All in all my guess is that the charger networks will be vastly improved in 2 years and gone as an roadblock in the market in 5 years.

That leaves price as the other market limitation, and the OEM's are acting as quickly as they can to match the vehicle pricing mix to the market. My guess is again about 2 years, at the soonest & 5 to 7 years at the latest this will be in the rear view camera. Other than the price of the battery, and battery prices have been dropping like a rock in free fall, the costs to procure materials and build an ICE v EV are hugely in the favor of the EV. The market in China, with the $9k basic EVs, of course with the Chinese government picking up most of the capital costs, shows this clearly.

Overall this market battle is mostly over, though the winners emergence at the marketplace will still take 2 to 7 years for new vehicles and 7 to 20 years for most vehicles to be EVs

by TravelinMan Mon Jul 29, 2024 1:37 pm

Ford on track to lose $5 BILLION this year on EVs! Ford loses $47,600 on every EV sold!!!

https://jalopnik.com/ford-s-ev-unit-has-already-lost-2-5-billion-this-year-1851607399

Yes, they sold 61% more EVs than last year, but with statistics like that, I'm not sure that's good news! Electric Vehicles - Information & Updates - Page 24 502811600

by **The Pantry** Mon Jul 29, 2024 6:17 pm

Pretty dumb all the 3D pumped a ton of capital into EV before their products and the infrastructure were ready. Same goes for foreign automakers.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Mon Jul 29, 2024 6:36 pm

TravelinMan wrote:Ford on track to lose $5 BILLION this year on EVs! Ford loses $47,600 on every EV sold!!!

https://jalopnik.com/ford-s-ev-unit-has-already-lost-2-5-billion-this-year-1851607399

Yes, they sold 61% more EVs than last year, but with statistics like that, I'm not sure that's good news!

how are e-bike sales going?

by **The Pantry** Mon Jul 29, 2024 7:12 pm

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:Ford on track to lose $5 BILLION this year on EVs! Ford loses $47,600 on every EV sold!!!

https://jalopnik.com/ford-s-ev-unit-has-already-lost-2-5-billion-this-year-1851607399

Yes, they sold 61% more EVs than last year, but with statistics like that, I'm not sure that's good news!
how are e-bike sales going?

Thankful you're one of the very few concerned about the topic.

When are you getting your 1st e-bike? Twisted Evil

by **Motown Spartan** Mon Jul 29, 2024 7:45 pm

Still laughing at people wanting a perfect product before it’s released to the public. And shame on those automakers for making huge capital investments in both manpower and technology. How dare they try to improve upon a situation that is currently unsustainable.

by **Robert J Sakimano** Mon Jul 29, 2024 8:13 pm

The Pantry wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: how are e-bike sales going?
Thankful you're one of the very few concerned about the topic.

When are you getting your 1st e-bike?

I'm hoping for never.

by **Trapper Gus** Mon Jul 29, 2024 8:50 pm

TravelinMan wrote:Ford on track to lose $5 BILLION this year on EVs! Ford loses $47,600 on every EV sold!!!

https://jalopnik.com/ford-s-ev-unit-has-already-lost-2-5-billion-this-year-1851607399

Yes, they sold 61% more EVs than last year, but with statistics like that, I'm not sure that's good news!

I am beginning to understand, via the lessons here on tSwill, that the current generation doesn't can about reality, just if it sounds good in a tweet.

Just to point out last year Ford was losing $100k per vehicle sold, so $47k mean they have cut their loss per vehicle in half...

Of course the real story is that the capital expense of building the capital infrastructure to build EVs is being binned against the vehicles sold. With the accelerated capital expense write downs, due to Trump's weird tax laws, a plant which will last 30 years or more is being expensed down in many fewer years.

https://www.cato.org/briefing-paper/expensing-taxation-capital-investment

by TravelinMan Mon Jul 29, 2024 9:28 pm

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
TravelinMan wrote:Ford on track to lose $5 BILLION this year on EVs! Ford loses $47,600 on every EV sold!!!

https://jalopnik.com/ford-s-ev-unit-has-already-lost-2-5-billion-this-year-1851607399

Yes, they sold 61% more EVs than last year, but with statistics like that, I'm not sure that's good news!
how are e-bike sales going?

Probably not well. Ive only ever bought two and they’re still going strong.

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