Multiple victims in a "mass shooting" at Orlando club.

I.B. Fine wrote:

Gomer wrote:Semi-automatic firearms, by their very function, are assault weapons. Any idiot who wants to argue that an AR-15 is not "technically an assault-rifle" need only look at what someone with a basic level of training, was able to accomplish with one. Over 100 casualties from one individual is an extremely effective assault. So let's stop with with this "they're not assault weapons" nonsense.

Any mass shooting is a terror crime. People are being terrorized by assault weapons on a daily basis. It doesn't matter if it's gays at a nightclub, patients and staff at a clinic, black people at a church service, or people hanging out on a street corner in the city. The terror is the fear of getting randomly gunned down by some nutjob with an assault weapon.

Did you see the FBI statistics Goose posted above? I think more people die from lightning strikes a year than typically by rifle.
If you live in fear of "assault rifles" you shouldn't leave the house.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:Oh now we can talk about banning lightning strikes yay

Gomer wrote:

I.B. Fine wrote:

Did you see the FBI statistics Goose posted above? I think more people die from lightning strikes a year than typically by rifle.
If you live in fear of "assault rifles" you shouldn't leave the house.

Did you read what I posted? Seriously. Go back, actually read and try processing it.

Goose's statistic makes my very point.

What weapons are being used to commit all of these mass-assaults?

Those are assault weapons. By the very nature of their function and use.

Gomer wrote:

I.B. Fine wrote:

Did you see the FBI statistics Goose posted above? I think more people die from lightning strikes a year than typically by rifle.
If you live in fear of "assault rifles" you shouldn't leave the house.

Did you read what I posted? Seriously. Go back, actually read and try processing it.

Goose's statistic makes my very point.

What weapons are being used to commit all of these mass-assaults?

Those are assault weapons. By the very nature of their function and use.

xsanguine wrote:OTPT, your vagina is showing.

Dr. Strangelove wrote:

Gomer wrote:Semi-automatic firearms, by their very function, are assault weapons. Any idiot who wants to argue that an AR-15 is not "technically an assault-rifle" need only look at what someone with a basic level of training, was able to accomplish with one. Over 100 casualties from one individual is an extremely effective assault. So let's stop with with this "they're not assault weapons" nonsense.

Any mass shooting is a terror crime. People are being terrorized by assault weapons on a daily basis. It doesn't matter if it's gays at a nightclub, patients and staff at a clinic, black people at a church service, or people hanging out on a street corner in the city. The terror is the fear of getting randomly gunned down by some nutjob with an assault weapon.

So the 30-06 deer rifle is an assault weapon? The Glock 9 pistol is an assault weapon?

Would you try to ban anything short of pump action shotguns, bolt action rifles and revolvers?

xsanguine wrote:Better lose all of your legally registered weapons in a canoe accident and report it to law enforcement if there's a chance Gomer gets his way.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

xsanguine wrote:OTPT, your vagina is showing.

the macho man thing was played out years ago. Along with frosted tips.

I.B. Fine wrote:

Gomer wrote:
Did you read what I posted? Seriously. Go back, actually read and try processing it.

Goose's statistic makes my very point.

What weapons are being used to commit all of these mass-assaults?

Those are assault weapons. By the very nature of their function and use.

So any semi automatic gun is an "assault weapon" and should be banned. OK. Like stated above there are millions of them and a tiny percentage are involved in crimes, but OK, how do you propose seizing them?

I.B. Fine wrote:

xsanguine wrote:Better lose all of your legally registered weapons in a canoe accident and report it to law enforcement if there's a chance Gomer gets his way.

Any guesses what percentage of guns are actually registered? Plenty of guns existed before we started registering things to make it easier to sleep at night.

xsanguine wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

the macho man thing was played out years ago. Along with frosted tips.

Did you formulate an opinion yet?

Gomer wrote:

Dr. Strangelove wrote:

So the 30-06 deer rifle is an assault weapon? The Glock 9 pistol is an assault weapon?

Would you try to ban anything short of pump action shotguns, bolt action rifles and revolvers?

First off, yes. Those are assault weapons. Capable of rapid, sustained fire. Easy to conceal. Deadly effective. If I wanted to assault a group of people, a Glock 9 with some high capacity mags would be very effective. Wouldn't it?

Second. Ban? No. Set very high standards for ownership, operation, training, certification, etc.? You're god damned right.

Third, as it relates to self-defense and the right to protect oneself; pump action shotguns, bolt action rifles and revolvers are still very effective. Though I'd replace pump action shotguns with break-action shotguns in that lineup.

Dr. Strangelove wrote:

Gomer wrote:
Did you read what I posted? Seriously. Go back, actually read and try processing it.

Goose's statistic makes my very point.

What weapons are being used to commit all of these mass-assaults?

Those are assault weapons. By the very nature of their function and use.

And you can't write a law that would ban your definition of assault weapons without sweeping up hunting rifles and/or pistols. Let alone trying to collect them from tens of millions of Americans.

Jake from State Farm wrote:

Gomer wrote:
First off, yes. Those are assault weapons. Capable of rapid, sustained fire. Easy to conceal. Deadly effective. If I wanted to assault a group of people, a Glock 9 with some high capacity mags would be very effective. Wouldn't it?

Second. Ban? No. Set very high standards for ownership, operation, training, certification, etc.? You're god damned right.

Third, as it relates to self-defense and the right to protect oneself; pump action shotguns, bolt action rifles and revolvers are still very effective. Though I'd replace pump action shotguns with break-action shotguns in that lineup.

A pump action loaded with 7 rounds of buckshot can do a pretty good job, and if you're any good with it you could probably rival a semi-auto.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

Did you formulate an opinion yet?

Individual rights
Lightning strikes
Assault weapon definition in the dictionary
This guy had a license
Big bad government
Big good government against Islam

Gomer wrote:

I.B. Fine wrote:

So any semi automatic gun is an "assault weapon" and should be banned. OK. Like stated above there are millions of them and a tiny percentage are involved in crimes, but OK, how do you propose seizing them?

Where did I say banned or seized?

Jesus Christ you guys are quick to the draw with strawmen.  I need a flame-thrower to combat this army of them that you are rolling out.  

xsanguine wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Individual rights
Lightning strikes
Assault weapon definition in the dictionary
This guy had a license
Big bad government
Big good government against Islam

Well, when you get one make sure to share it. At some point you'll have to learn that having a point and be willing to defend it is a positive character trait. And that trying to hide behind some false deniability is a character flaw.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

Well, when you get one make sure to share it. At some point you'll have to learn that having a point and be willing to defend it is a positive character trait. And that trying to hide behind some false deniability is a character flaw.

I'm sorry you don't like my posts regarding this matter. be sure to demean your daughter as you just did to other females.

LooseGoose wrote:Wags - "assault rifle" is a made up political term. Even the people that made up the name admit that now.

Hunting rifles are deadlier than "assault rifles", they shoot just as fast and generally fire a more lethal round.

Obviously this is going to change for this year - but over the past 10 years ALL rifles have been involved in approximately 300 murders per year. Rifles are not the problem. IF you really want to impact murders, handguns are involved in approximately 6,000 murders per year. But for politicians there is no easy sexy target like an "assault handgun" - so they mislead the public about "assault rifles" and accomplish exactly nothing.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

I assume you're against gun control, then?

I'm for talking about "real solutions" only to talk through it and end up at "well, can't do anything about it. fuck it."

I.B. Fine wrote:

Gomer wrote:
Where did I say banned or seized?

Jesus Christ you guys are quick to the draw with strawmen.  I need a flame-thrower to combat this army of them that you are rolling out.  

As stated above, there are many million guns held by law abiding citizens that meet your standard for "bad" guns, short of confiscation, how do you thing your rules change anything?
Isn't it time to consider the other side of the equation, the finger on the trigger?
The guy in Orlando was known by law enforcement, wouldn't that be an easier avenue?

xsanguine wrote:

steveschneider wrote:

According to the father sounds like the motivation was homophobia. He saw two men kissing a month ago and was upset about it.

If it's homohobia stemming from Islamic religious belief... that won't be the cause to a large segment of the population. It has to be gun nuts, Christian bigotry, something that can be tied to whites, etc.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

I'm for talking about "real solutions" only to talk through it and end up at "well, can't do anything about it. fuck it."

Unfortunately otpt, yes, fuck it we can't do anything" is the answer. There are longer term solutions as society evolves, but for now, these men you're talking to are gutless cowards who truly believe that their gun is the only thing that has kept them alive to this day. They are afraid of every bump in the night and they will not consider a solution that involves limiting guns. It's just the way it is. Without people voluntarily giving up the guns that they think they so desperately need there is no way to contain guns.

So, any solution has to be built around the framework that guns are too prevalent and won't go away. Really all you can do is try to help people on the "seriously, you don't want to murder people. Stop it" front. Again, unfortunately people are scared of the boogie man, so they will want to attribute this to the fact that the guy was brown and his parents were from Afghanistan and maybe liked Isis. But, the issue isn't Isis. The issue is that an American born guy thought that joining Isis and murdering gay people was a good idea. In other words, dude was fucking crazy. So, since guns aren't going anywhere, and there will always be a boogie man that people will want to blame for everything, you need help people with their mental issues that cause them to think these ideas are rational.

Of course, the same people that are terrified of the boogie man and need their guns to stay alive and want to blame everything on whomever Americas current enemy is also have this habit for cutting mental health funding time and time again in every state in the country. So, back to your post, we're all fucked.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

I'm for talking about "real solutions" only to talk through it and end up at "well, can't do anything about it. fuck it."

Unfortunately otpt, yes, fuck it we can't do anything" is the answer. There are longer term solutions as society evolves, but for now, these men you're talking to are gutless cowards who truly believe that their gun is the only thing that has kept them alive to this day. They are afraid of every bump in the night and they will not consider a solution that involves limiting guns. It's just the way it is. Without people voluntarily giving up the guns that they think they so desperately need there is no way to contain guns.

So, any solution has to be built around the framework that guns are too prevalent and won't go away. Really all you can do is try to help people on the "seriously, you don't want to murder people. Stop it" front. Again, unfortunately people are scared of the boogie man, so they will want to attribute this to the fact that the guy was brown and his parents were from Afghanistan and maybe liked Isis. But, the issue isn't Isis. The issue is that an American born guy thought that joining Isis and murdering gay people was a good idea. In other words, dude was fucking crazy. So, since guns aren't going anywhere, and there will always be a boogie man that people will want to blame for everything, you need help people with their mental issues that cause them to think these ideas are rational.

Of course, the same people that are terrified of the boogie man and need their guns to stay alive and want to blame everything on whomever Americas current enemy is also have this habit for cutting mental health funding time and time again in every state in the country. So, back to your post, we're all fucked.

Gomer wrote:

I.B. Fine wrote:

As stated above, there are many million guns held by law abiding citizens that meet your standard for "bad" guns, short of confiscation, how do you thing your rules change anything?
Isn't it time to consider the other side of the equation, the finger on the trigger?
The guy in Orlando was known by law enforcement, wouldn't that be an easier avenue?

Like I said, set very high standards for ownership, operation, training, certification, etc.

Require mandatory registration of all firearms.  Law abiding citizens who meet the requirements can continue to own and operate their firearms.

Ensure that there are strict enforcement measures for non-compliance.

These standard should include some sort of basic mental health check, standards for securing weapons and strict penalties if they are stolen while unsecured or otherwise come up "missing" or are used by someone else in a crime, and documentation and approval of all weapon transfers.

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

I'm for talking about "real solutions" only to talk through it and end up at "well, can't do anything about it. fuck it."

Unfortunately otpt, yes, fuck it we can't do anything" is the answer. There are longer term solutions as society evolves, but for now, these men you're talking to are gutless cowards who truly believe that their gun is the only thing that has kept them alive to this day. They are afraid of every bump in the night and they will not consider a solution that involves limiting guns. It's just the way it is. Without people voluntarily giving up the guns that they think they so desperately need there is no way to contain guns.

So, any solution has to be built around the framework that guns are too prevalent and won't go away. Really all you can do is try to help people on the "seriously, you don't want to murder people. Stop it" front. Again, unfortunately people are scared of the boogie man, so they will want to attribute this to the fact that the guy was brown and his parents were from Afghanistan and maybe liked Isis. But, the issue isn't Isis. The issue is that an American born guy thought that joining Isis and murdering gay people was a good idea. In other words, dude was fucking crazy. So, since guns aren't going anywhere, and there will always be a boogie man that people will want to blame for everything, you need help people with their mental issues that cause them to think these ideas are rational.

Of course, the same people that are terrified of the boogie man and need their guns to stay alive and want to blame everything on whomever Americas current enemy is also have this habit for cutting mental health funding time and time again in every state in the country. So, back to your post, we're all fucked.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

Unfortunately otpt, yes, fuck it we can't do anything" is the answer. There are longer term solutions as society evolves, but for now, these men you're talking to are gutless cowards who truly believe that their gun is the only thing that has kept them alive to this day. They are afraid of every bump in the night and they will not consider a solution that involves limiting guns. It's just the way it is. Without people voluntarily giving up the guns that they think they so desperately need there is no way to contain guns.

So, any solution has to be built around the framework that guns are too prevalent and won't go away. Really all you can do is try to help people on the "seriously, you don't want to murder people. Stop it" front. Again, unfortunately people are scared of the boogie man, so they will want to attribute this to the fact that the guy was brown and his parents were from Afghanistan and maybe liked Isis. But, the issue isn't Isis. The issue is that an American born guy thought that joining Isis and murdering gay people was a good idea. In other words, dude was fucking crazy. So, since guns aren't going anywhere, and there will always be a boogie man that people will want to blame for everything, you need help people with their mental issues that cause them to think these ideas are rational.

Of course, the same people that are terrified of the boogie man and need their guns to stay alive and want to blame everything on whomever Americas current enemy is also have this habit for cutting mental health funding time and time again in every state in the country. So, back to your post, we're all fucked.

Here Xsan, Travis pretty much covered it. I'm going to the park. Have fun talking about freedom.

I.B. Fine wrote:

xsanguine wrote:Better lose all of your legally registered weapons in a canoe accident and report it to law enforcement if there's a chance Gomer gets his way.

Any guesses what percentage of guns are actually registered? Plenty of guns existed before we started registering things to make it easier for some to sleep at night.

I.B. Fine wrote:

Gomer wrote:
Like I said, set very high standards for ownership, operation, training, certification, etc.

Require mandatory registration of all firearms.  Law abiding citizens who meet the requirements can continue to own and operate their firearms.

Ensure that there are strict enforcement measures for non-compliance.

These standard should include some sort of basic mental health check, standards for securing weapons and strict penalties if they are stolen while unsecured or otherwise come up "missing" or are used by someone else in a crime, and documentation and approval of all weapon transfers.

So if said gun owning "law abiding citizens" don't meet your requirements, what do you do with the guns they've owned for years?

xsanguine wrote:

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

Here Xsan, Travis pretty much covered it. I'm going to the park. Have fun talking about freedom.

You can't be this daft.

Other Teams Pursuing That wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

You can't be this daft.

I've made you tilt without even having to say anything and without having to hear your anarchy bullshit. good day.

I.B. Fine wrote:

Gomer wrote:
Like I said, set very high standards for ownership, operation, training, certification, etc.

Require mandatory registration of all firearms.  Law abiding citizens who meet the requirements can continue to own and operate their firearms.

Ensure that there are strict enforcement measures for non-compliance.

These standard should include some sort of basic mental health check, standards for securing weapons and strict penalties if they are stolen while unsecured or otherwise come up "missing" or are used by someone else in a crime, and documentation and approval of all weapon transfers.

So if said gun owning "law abiding citizens" don't meet your requirements, what do you do with the guns they've owned for years?

xsanguine wrote:

I.B. Fine wrote:
So if said gun owning "law abiding citizens" don't meet your requirements, what do you do with the guns they've owned for years?

Gomer wrote:

xsanguine wrote:

AHHHHHHHHH ANOTHER STRAWMAN!!! QUICK GET ME MY SELF-DEFENSE FLAMETHROWER!!!!!

xsanguine wrote:

Gomer wrote:
AHHHHHHHHH ANOTHER STRAWMAN!!! QUICK GET ME MY SELF-DEFENSE FLAMETHROWER!!!!!

What do you do with individuals that refuse to register these weapons for political reasons and state agents become aware of their existence?

xsanguine wrote:OTPT, your vagina is showing.