POS Doctor Nassar will rot in jail forever

Herbie do you think you could beat me in an arm wrestling competition? Best 2 out of 3.

I will beat you on the hoop court or water sports.   Arm wrestling I wouldn't bet on myself

Crown, Miller Lite and Sweet Dreams

Bitch

Somebody is tuned.

InTenSity wrote:So much easier to be a Monday morning qb. This case is ready to talk about now and make accusations. The fact of the matter is that doctors get a lot of leeway. They're supposed to touch your body and look for injuries or treat injuries. Neither Hollis or Simon are these type of Dr's. This also didn't take place exclusively at MSU.

I agree it is easier to be the Monday morning QB.

From my perspective this isn't about being a doctor or a even medical professional.  I believe the University President's primary job is effective leadership and proper guidance of the University.  I have to believe it is an epic failure in that regard.  And that failure led to the continued sexual abuse of students and others.  

In the end Dr. Simon had the direct responsibility of ensuring proper Title IX compliance.

Leadership is not about lawyering-up or sticking your head in the sand.  It is about being proactive, recognizing your faults and addressing them.  Again I ask, why is Dr. Strample (a medical professional who was responsible for overseeing Nassar) still employed by MSU?

I believe that to move forward MSU needs new leadership.

MSU addict wrote:

InTenSity wrote:So much easier to be a Monday morning qb. This case is ready to talk about now and make accusations. The fact of the matter is that doctors get a lot of leeway. They're supposed to touch your body and look for injuries or treat injuries. Neither Hollis or Simon are these type of Dr's. This also didn't take place exclusively at MSU.

I agree it is easier to be the Monday morning QB.

From my perspective this isn't about being a doctor or a even medical professional.  I believe the University President's primary job is effective leadership and proper guidance of the University.  I have to believe it is an epic failure in that regard.  And that failure led to the continued sexual abuse of students and others.  

In the end Dr. Simon had the direct responsibility of ensuring proper Title IX compliance.

Leadership is not about lawyering-up or sticking your head in the sand.  It is about being proactive, recognizing your faults and addressing them.  Again I ask, why is Dr. Strample (a medical professional who was responsible for overseeing Nassar) still employed by MSU?

I believe that to move forward MSU needs new leadership.

MSU Dean William Strampel, Larry Nassar's former boss, steps down for medical reasons

DWags wrote:I’m going out on a limb and saying Herbie had a cocktail or two.

Drunk Cameron > Drunk Herbie

LooseGoose wrote:

MSU addict wrote:
I agree it is easier to be the Monday morning QB.

From my perspective this isn't about being a doctor or a even medical professional.  I believe the University President's primary job is effective leadership and proper guidance of the University.  I have to believe it is an epic failure in that regard.  And that failure led to the continued sexual abuse of students and others.  

In the end Dr. Simon had the direct responsibility of ensuring proper Title IX compliance.

Leadership is not about lawyering-up or sticking your head in the sand.  It is about being proactive, recognizing your faults and addressing them.  Again I ask, why is Dr. Strample (a medical professional who was responsible for overseeing Nassar) still employed by MSU?

I believe that to move forward MSU needs new leadership.

MSU Dean William Strampel, Larry Nassar's former boss, steps down for medical reasons

Yeah, Medical reasons.   As I said, I think he goes to recover off shore somewhere.   Forever.

I will still have to wonder why MSU has never sought to remove Strample and I am disappointed he will remain on the faculty of MSU.

I also wonder why MSU has never had an independent investigation of what happened. This is going to hang over our heads for years and in the end, it will not be pretty.

MSU needs to move forward. We cannot do that while Simon remains president

MSU addict wrote:I will still have to wonder why MSU has never sought to remove Strample and I am disappointed he will remain on the faculty of MSU.

I also wonder why MSU has never had an independent investigation of what happened. This is going to hang over our heads for years and in the end, it will not be pretty.

MSU needs to move forward. We cannot do that while Simon remains president

I’m not disagreeing with you, but I am willing to weigh things out. It’s tough to be MSU on this. We really don’t know everything and we’re left to speculate. Evidence at hand seems like things fell through the cracks. As an alum donor and now father who is sending checks too, I think answers are owed to us. I get the legal side, but eventually the questions you and everybody has need to be answered.

DWags wrote:

MSU addict wrote:I will still have to wonder why MSU has never sought to remove Strample and I am disappointed he will remain on the faculty of MSU.

I also wonder why MSU has never had an independent investigation of what happened. This is going to hang over our heads for years and in the end, it will not be pretty.

MSU needs to move forward. We cannot do that while Simon remains president

I’m not disagreeing with you, but I am willing to weigh things out. It’s tough to be MSU on this. We really don’t know everything and we’re left to speculate. Evidence at hand seems like things fell through the cracks. As an alum donor and now father who is sending checks too, I think answers are owed to us. I get the legal side, but eventually the questions you and everybody has need to be answered.

I agree it will be answered. I am sure MSU will look to settle these cases outside of court, but with 140+ cases and the anger of many of the victims, it is logically not going to happen. The truth will come out. History tells us it will not end well and MSU as an institution will forever be tarnished.

MSU's continued refusal to have or to allow an independent investigation leads me to one inescapable conclusion: Simon knew.

If she truly loves MSU, she should resign.

MSU addict wrote:MSU's continued refusal to have or to allow an independent investigation leads me to one inescapable conclusion: Simon knew.

I don't see that as the inescapable conclusion.

Admitting that I tend to think the best of people until proven otherwise: I think the coaches were convinced this was a legit medical procedure. Even when they heard the 1st stories they continued to believe it was legit based on his Olympic "seal of being good". I think the Olympic people dismissed early warnings because MSU hadn't reported any incidents. IOW I think he had inoculated himself by
having the feedback loop between MSU and the Olympic people.

Combine that with the devious way he made his violations resemble legitimate medical procedures and I think you have the way that he skated by everyone for over a decade. It took one brave woman to stand up and keep shouting until she couldn't be ignored to call everyone's attention to what was going on right in their midst.

IF that's true it means LAKS, the Olympic people, and others at MSU simply didn't see the well disguised evil in front of them.

And the counterpoint would be that IF they did know and covered for him?

Anyone with prior knowledge that said nothing should face prison, they were nothing less than accomplices in the molestation of little girls.

LooseGoose wrote:

MSU addict wrote:MSU's continued refusal to have or to allow an independent investigation leads me to one inescapable conclusion: Simon knew.

I don't see that as the inescapable conclusion.

Admitting that I tend to think the best of people until proven otherwise: I think the coaches were convinced this was a legit medical procedure. Even when they heard the 1st stories they continued to believe it was legit based on his Olympic "seal of being good". I think the Olympic people dismissed early warnings because MSU hadn't reported any incidents. IOW I think he had inoculated himself by
having the feedback loop between MSU and the Olympic people.

Combine that with the devious way he made his violations resemble legitimate medical procedures and I think you have the way that he skated by everyone for over a decade. It took one brave woman to stand up and keep shouting until she couldn't be ignored to call everyone's attention to what was going on right in their midst.

IF that's true it means LAKS, the Olympic people, and others at MSU simply didn't see the well disguised evil in front of them.

Fair enough, then why not have an independent investigation? Why try to continue to hide things? We are a public university beholden to the populace.

If you read the substance of the 2014 Title IX complaint, no reasonable person would conclude that to be a legitimate medical procedure.

It may be old school but I was taught that if you fuck-up - you own-up.

LooseGoose wrote:And the counterpoint would be that IF they did know and covered for him?  

Anyone with prior knowledge that said nothing should face prison, they were nothing less than accomplices in the molestation of little girls.

I will suggest it is not only a matter of "if they knew."  I think the standard of "should they have known" applies.:  You cannot stick your head in the sand and remain purposefully ignorant and still come out clean.

I may be in the minority, but I expect much more from the person leading our University.

MSU addict wrote:

DWags wrote:

I’m not disagreeing with you, but I am willing to weigh things out. It’s tough to be MSU on this. We really don’t know everything and we’re left to speculate. Evidence at hand seems like things fell through the cracks. As an alum donor and now father who is sending checks too, I think answers are owed to us. I get the legal side, but eventually the questions you and everybody has need to be answered.

I agree it will be answered. I am sure MSU will look to settle these cases outside of court, but with 140+ cases and the anger of many of the victims, it is logically not going to happen. The truth will come out. History tells us it will not end well and MSU as an institution will forever be tarnished.

MSU's continued refusal to have or to allow an independent investigation leads me to one inescapable conclusion: Simon knew.

If she truly loves MSU, she should resign.

I’m just impressed with limited information and zero witnesses heard from MSU that you’re able to make that conclusion.

I do t think there is one person on this board that I’ve read that doesn’t want justice, no matter where it leads. But I get the feeling you don’t want MSU to follow advice of council in this very legal matter.

That’s fine I guess, but I don’t think I’d want you to be my attorney. Lets do this, but lets do this right I’m ready for justice, but at least give me the evidence you have in regards to LAKS that lead you there.

DWags wrote:

MSU addict wrote:I agree it will be answered. I am sure MSU will look to settle these cases outside of court, but with 140+ cases and the anger of many of the victims, it is logically not going to happen. The truth will come out. History tells us it will not end well and MSU as an institution will forever be tarnished.

MSU's continued refusal to have or to allow an independent investigation leads me to one inescapable conclusion: Simon knew.

If she truly loves MSU, she should resign.

I’m just impressed with limited information and zero witnesses heard from MSU that you’re able to make that conclusion.

I do t think there is one person on this board that I’ve read that doesn’t want justice, no matter where it leads. But I get the feeling you don’t want MSU to follow advice of council in this very legal matter.

That’s fine I guess, but I don’t think I’d want you to be my attorney. Lets do this, but lets do this right I’m ready for justice, but at least give me the evidence you have in regards to LAKS that lead you there.

Why do I have limited information? Why can't I point to any testimony from our leadership?

Again answer the question, why not have an independent investigation? If MSU has nothing to hide why the fear?

The answer is not that MSU is afraid of getting sued - that has already happened 140+ times.

MSU addict wrote:

DWags wrote:

I’m just impressed with limited information and zero witnesses heard from MSU that you’re able to make that conclusion.

I do t think there is one person on this board that I’ve read that doesn’t want justice, no matter where it leads. But I get the feeling you don’t want MSU to follow advice of council in this very legal matter.

That’s fine I guess, but I don’t think I’d want you to be my attorney. Lets do this, but lets do this right I’m ready for justice, but at least give me the evidence you have in regards to LAKS that lead you there.

Why do I have limited information? Why can't I point to any testimony from our leadership?

Again answer the question, why not have an independent investigation? If MSU has nothing to hide why the fear?

The answer is not that MSU is afraid of getting sued - that has already happened 140+ times.

What is the difference between a criminal investigation which is conducted and an “independent” investigation? Has there been a criminal investigation? Are you saying more information will be garnered? I’m not following you.

DWags wrote:

MSU addict wrote:Why do I have limited information? Why can't I point to any testimony from our leadership?

Again answer the question, why not have an independent investigation?  If MSU has nothing to hide why the fear?

The answer is not that MSU is afraid of getting sued - that has already happened 140+ times.  

What is the difference between a criminal investigation which is conducted and an “independent” investigation?  Has there been a criminal investigation?  Are you saying more information will be garnered?  I’m not following you.

Unfortunately we know little of what has occurred because MSU will not say.  From what I am aware:

MSU hired one of the highest powered law firms in the world, Skadden Arps, to review what happened for civil litigation defense.  The Michigan Attorney General ask for copies of any and all reports.  MSU has said no such reports exist.

MSU claims "the FBI and MSU Police also conducted a joint investigation earlier this year looking at whether any university employee engaged in criminal conduct; there were no charges filed."  I am not sure what this means.  Any such investigation would be outside of what the FBI generally investigates and neither the FBI or MSU Police file charges.  They would only request that charges be filed.  I find the wording to be suspect, especially considering an MSU employee was charged with crimes (Nassar).

I doubt anyone is suggesting (and I am certainly not) that Simon or Strample committed criminal acts.  This is not a case of a university president knowing that a football coach is banging underage boys in the locker room.  That said, I do believe that both Simon and Strample failed in their oversight of Nassar, especially in light of the 2014 Title IX investigation.

Ideally an independent investigation would tell us what everyone knew and when the knew it.  I feel that information will eventually come out, unless we commit a criminal acts to destroy it.  

To me the choice is between being upfront about what happened or adopting the strategy MSU has apparently chosen - which drags this out for years while suggesting guilt.  

But obviously I am not that bright because I did not go to law school and the University is not paying me millions of dollars to defend it (6 million so far).

Simon didn't "know" as far as we know.  If she had fired Nassar it would have been a wrongful termination because the guy was innocent in the eyes of the law.  WTF was she supposed to do?  Now she is supposed to be over ruling Doctor expert medical opinions about specialized procedures in addition to prosecutors.  Was she supposed to also invent a time machine and teleport into the rooms of every office on campus and catch Nassar molesting girls while their own mothers were in the same room and saw nothing?

Herbie Green wrote:Simon didn't "know" as far as we know.  If she had fired Nassar it would have been a wrongful termination because the guy was innocent in the eyes of the law.  WTF was she supposed to do?  Now she is supposed to be over ruling Doctor expert medical opinions about specialized procedures in addition to prosecutors.  Was she supposed to also invent a time machine and teleport into the rooms of every office on campus and catch Nassar molesting girls while their own mothers were in the same room and saw nothing?

You cannot possibly be this slow.  The 2014 Title IX complaint provided more than ample justification to fire Nassar.  In fact, he should have been fired. The relevant question is how much information did MSU have before that.

More shit released. A lot more of breakdown in communication. People not talking to people.

Nassar practiced for 16 months while under accusations and clearances. However MSU can dismis anyone who is even accused while investigating.

I hope Simon and the BoT don't dig their heels in and get stubborn when the mob forms (it's comin', and soon). I don't think this is a hill worth dying on and we are going to come off looking very Penn Statey if they go that route.

This is an interesting development....

Dan Murphy‏
@DanMurphyESPN
31m31 minutes ago
More
USA Gymnastics paid former gold medalist McKayla Maroney to keep quiet about Larry Nassar's abuse. Story:

USA Gymnastics struck deal with McKayla Maroney to keep Larry Nassar abuse quiet, lawyer says

Matt Mencarini‏ @MattMencarini 18m18 minutes ago

Interesting new details:

In "the early stages, MSU Police detectives made multiple contacts with the Ingham County Prosecutor’s office. Each time, prosecutors indicated this was not a chargeable case."

MSUPD kept investigating and sent warrant request.

LooseGoose wrote:This is an interesting development....

Dan Murphy‏
@DanMurphyESPN
31m31 minutes ago
More
USA Gymnastics paid former gold medalist McKayla Maroney to keep quiet about Larry Nassar's abuse. Story:

USA Gymnastics struck deal with McKayla Maroney to keep Larry Nassar abuse quiet, lawyer says

"They were willing to engage in a systematic cover-up of the entire matter," Manly said Wednesday when asked about the confidentiality agreement.

And she agreed to take a big payday to be part of the cover up. I still really feel bad for the awful things that this POS did to her, but this isn't a good look for her at all.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:This is an interesting development....

Dan Murphy‏
@DanMurphyESPN
31m31 minutes ago
More
USA Gymnastics paid former gold medalist McKayla Maroney to keep quiet about Larry Nassar's abuse. Story:

USA Gymnastics struck deal with McKayla Maroney to keep Larry Nassar abuse quiet, lawyer says

"They were willing to engage in a systematic cover-up of the entire matter," Manly said Wednesday when asked about the confidentiality agreement.

And she agreed to take a big payday to be part of the cover up. I still really feel bad for the awful things that this POS did to her, but this isn't a good look for her at all.

It is a much worse look for USA Gymnastics. As the article points out, any such agreement would violate California law (she is a was a California resident) as the law does not allow you to cover up a felony.

USA Gymnastics also refuses to say if any other agreements exist and it sounds as though there are a number of them.

FWIW, USA Gymnastics' President Paul Parilla is an attorney.

MSU addict wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
"They were willing to engage in a systematic cover-up of the entire matter," Manly said Wednesday when asked about the confidentiality agreement.

And she agreed to take a big payday to be part of the cover up. I still really feel bad for the awful things that this POS did to her, but this isn't a good look for her at all.

It is a much worse look for USA Gymnastics. As the article points out, any such agreement would violate California law (she is a was a California resident) as the law does not allow you to cover up a felony.

USA Gymnastics also refuses to say if any other agreements exist and it sounds as though there are a number of them.

FWIW, USA Gymnastics' President Paul Parilla is an attorney.

Oh yeah, absolutely. I didn't mean to imply that it makes her look as bad or worse than USA Gymnastics, or even than MSU and certainly not the fuckwad Nassar. But to have one of the victims take a payday to help cover things up is about as bad as a victim could look (at least it was after he got busted, and her help in covering it up didn't allow him to keep working and abuse more girls).

Regarding it being illegal in California, I wouldn't think that she is without legal fault, as well. She had a lawyer in the room. Wouldn't they know it is illegal? Notice the guy quoted in this article was not her attorney at the time, which tells me her lawyer at the time fucked up, too. Again, USA Gymnastics is still worse in this. It will definitely be interesting to see how many more of these deals there were, whether they were in states where such things are legal or not. I hope that MSU didn't do any deals like this, but I'm sure that will be looked into very closely now.

Having US Gymnastics involved is keeping some of the heat off MSU.....this article never mentions MSU.

The Pervnado Cover-Up Behind That Olympic Team Doctor

LooseGoose wrote:Having US Gymnastics involved is keeping some of the heat off MSU.....this article never mentions MSU.

The Pervnado Cover-Up Behind That Olympic Team Doctor

They did on CNN this morning. Said US gymnastics and Michigan State. “.

DWags wrote:

LooseGoose wrote:Having US Gymnastics involved is keeping some of the heat off MSU.....this article never mentions MSU.

The Pervnado Cover-Up Behind That Olympic Team Doctor

They did on CNN this morning. Said US gymnastics and Michigan State. “.

I have heard MSU mentioned at least twice this week on ABC World News Tonight. Up until this week, I don't recall them every mentioning it, so our day in the spotlight seems to be beginning.

For the most part, the national or local news that I see usually mentions USA Gymnastics and not MSU. They'll mention the total number of accusers and that kind of thing, but it's usually in the context of mentioning Raisman, Douglas, and Maroney, are among his many accusers. Obviously, their names make this a bigger story and that, as well as USA Gymnastics gets more attention than a college 1500 miles away that many locals think is the same school as UM.

MSU addict wrote:

Herbie Green wrote:Simon didn't "know" as far as we know.  If she had fired Nassar it would have been a wrongful termination because the guy was innocent in the eyes of the law.  WTF was she supposed to do?  Now she is supposed to be over ruling Doctor expert medical opinions about specialized procedures in addition to prosecutors.  Was she supposed to also invent a time machine and teleport into the rooms of every office on campus and catch Nassar molesting girls while their own mothers were in the same room and saw nothing?

You cannot possibly be this slow.  The 2014 Title IX complaint provided more than ample justification to fire Nassar.  In fact, he should have been fired. The relevant question is how much information did MSU have before that.

Huh? He should have been fired as the result of an investigation that found him innocent?

The Cover-up Allegations in the McKayla Maroney Lawsuit Are Potentially Explosive


While the detailed and horrific account of Nassar’s sexual assault against one of the biggest stars of the sport garnered the biggest headlines—along with the reported $1.25 million pricetag of the secret settlement—the lawsuit’s claims are even more wider ranging than that. Maroney’s lawsuit accuses USA Gymnastics, the U.S. Olympics Committee, and Michigan State University of taking part in a wide-ranging conspiracy to cover up Nassar’s abuse.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/12/the-cover-up-allegations-in-the-mckayla-maroney-lawsuit-are-potentially-explosive.html

Was she ever at MSU?

I can only just imagine the smart ass comment that must be