Hurricane Ian

The Pantry wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:
State funded.  It is a non-profit insurer created by the Florida state legislature.  I don't know if the Federal government gives them anything.

Edit:  Actually state funded sounds like everyone's taxes pay it.  Obviously, there are still all of the insurance premiums that customers pay.  Like any other insurer, they run on that.  But I believe the state backing comes in if they simply can't cover it.  FWIW, Citizens just passed 1 million customers.  There are 10 million residences in the state.  So most don't have it.

How do they do it without a state income tax?  6% sales tax is same as Michigan.  Know there's a massive tourism difference.  How do property taxes work there?

It isn't free insurance. Like any insurance company, they are funded by customer premiums. They then have the right to levy assessments on policy holders if they are in the red after a storm.

But as far as state taxes in general, I looked it up out of curiosity and 81% of all Florida tax collections are transactional taxes (general and selective sales tax). It looks like property taxes per capita are in the middle nationally. But if you want to know more about Florida taxes, this might help: https://floridataxwatch.org/Research/Full-Library/ArtMID/34407/ArticleID/19099/2021-How-Florida-Compares-Taxes

Bums me out because I really enjoyed a couple trips to Captiva. Time to face reality.

Ian shows the risks and costs of living on barrier islands

The Pantry wrote:Bums me out because I really enjoyed a couple trips to Captiva. Time to face reality.

Ian shows the risks and costs of living on barrier islands

Don't understand that. If the mega hotels and apartments are surviving seems like the same building standards for single family structures would be insurable. Put em on stilts like the east coast...

AvgMSUJoe wrote:

The Pantry wrote:Bums me out because I really enjoyed a couple trips to Captiva. Time to face reality.

Ian shows the risks and costs of living on barrier islands

Don't understand that. If the mega hotels and apartments are surviving seems like the same building standards for single family structures would be insurable. Put em on stilts like the east coast...

Most of the homes on Sanibel and Captiva are on stilts, or have only garage and maybe a patio area on the first floor, but the 12+ foot storm surge also reached the second level/living area of some homes Some have wood frame stilts. Some have concrete stilts. Many of the wood frame stilts were wiped out. The storm surge is powerful, not just rising water. The surge alone broke some hurricane impact windows (the impact rating is for wind and flying objects, not for the power of the ocean).

Would think the first floors of the hotels are probably higher than 12 feet. and the footing go down pretty deep.

Trapper Gus wrote:Would think the first floors of the hotels are probably higher than 12 feet. and the footing go down pretty deep.

Keep in mind that in addition to the storm surge (which well exceeded 12 feet in some areas), there are also the waves cresting a few feet higher.

[tw]1576583806173466624?s=46&t=-NypHLd0y0NcH17P9SM4WA[/tw]

MiamiSpartan wrote:

The Pantry wrote:
How do they do it without a state income tax?  6% sales tax is same as Michigan.  Know there's a massive tourism difference.  How do property taxes work there?

It isn't free insurance. Like any insurance company, they are funded by customer premiums. They then have the right to levy assessments on policy holders if they are in the red after a storm.

But as far as state taxes in general, I looked it up out of curiosity and 81% of all Florida tax collections are transactional taxes (general and selective sales tax). It looks like property taxes per capita are in the middle nationally. But if you want to know more about Florida taxes, this might help: https://floridataxwatch.org/Research/Full-Library/ArtMID/34407/ArticleID/19099/2021-How-Florida-Compares-Taxes

The CEO of Citizens (the Florida one, that is the state backed non-profit insurance company discussed above) was on one of the local Sunday morning talk shoes this morning, and said that they have a $6 billion surplus, and estimate claims of less than $4 billion (on an expected 225,000 claims), so they can handle this, and said that most other insurers can as well. The problem, he said, will come if there is another big storm this year, and at that point they would likely need to levy an assessment.

it's okay.. the tough, testosterone-driven, Ivy League educated, alpha-male is here to fix things.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:it's okay.. the tough, testosterone-driven, Ivy League educated, alpha-male is here to fix things.

He had his minions stop at a local farm supply store and pick up those boots. Not a mark on them and I'll bet they end up in the trash before the day is done.

Robert J Sakimano wrote:it's okay.. the tough, testosterone-driven, Ivy League educated, alpha-male is here to fix things.

[tw]1577218828043702278[/tw]

I was going to joke about his rolled up sleeves, however the boots are winning ...

WTF? It's way after Labor Day

Thought this was an interesting story about Babcock Ranch, a 100% solar-powered community a dozen miles outside of Fort Myers. Nobody lost power and the homes sustained minimal damage. The Ranch was an idea of, and built by, former Green Bay Packer Syd Kitson in 2015. Gotta believe a lot of builders will be taking notice.


https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/02/us/solar-babcock-ranch-florida-hurricane-ian-climate/index.html

The Pantry wrote:WTF? It's way after Labor Day

Fashion rules are for the poors.

tGreenWay wrote:Thought this was an interesting story about Babcock Ranch, a 100% solar-powered community a dozen miles outside of Fort Myers. Nobody lost power and the homes sustained minimal damage. The Ranch was an idea of, and built by, former Green Bay Packer Syd Kitson in 2015. Gotta believe a lot of builders will be taking notice.


https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/02/us/solar-babcock-ranch-florida-hurricane-ian-climate/index.html

I don't think I've ever heard of that place. A couple of thoughts, the design is interesting. Designing the roads to flood, I'd like to see how that works. The solar being run by FP&L could make the difference of continuing to have power. In FL, if you have Solar and the power goes out, you can't use your solar to power your house, you have to use batteries. I had no clue until after Irma about that. FP&L lobbied for that rule, I agree with part of it, which is that you don't want to electrocute workers, but you should be able to disconnect from the grid and use your own power.
Being inland can get to be unbearable at times, so I wonder how many residence are year round residence at that community. Summers on the west coast, probably even 5 miles from the coast can be really hot and bug filled.
Either way I like the concept.

InTenSity wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:Thought this was an interesting story about Babcock Ranch, a 100% solar-powered community a dozen miles outside of Fort Myers. Nobody lost power and the homes sustained minimal damage. The Ranch was an idea of, and built by, former Green Bay Packer Syd Kitson in 2015. Gotta believe a lot of builders will be taking notice.


https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/02/us/solar-babcock-ranch-florida-hurricane-ian-climate/index.html

I don't think I've ever heard of that place. A couple of thoughts, the design is interesting. Designing the roads to flood, I'd like to see how that works. The solar being run by FP&L could make the difference of continuing to have power. In FL, if you have Solar and the power goes out, you can't use your solar to power your house, you have to use batteries. I had no clue until after Irma about that. FP&L lobbied for that rule, I agree with part of it, which is that you don't want to electrocute workers, but you should be able to disconnect from the grid and use your own power.
Being inland can get to be unbearable at times, so I wonder how many residence are year round residence at that community. Summers on the west coast, probably even 5 miles from the coast can be really hot and bug filled.
Either way I like the concept.

Have you checked with Trapper on this? I’m skeptical.

This is federal program to which I was earlier referring. I haven’t read it, so there’s the chance it contains info already mentioned by our Florida Swillers.

https://www.fema.gov/flood-insurance

tGreenWay wrote:This is federal program to which I was referring. I haven’t read it, so there’s the chance it contains info already mentioned by our Florida Swillers.

https://www.fema.gov/flood-insurance

I'm not sure what you're referencing,  but I'm pretty sure every insurance company that covered those area will deny coverage and say they got flooded. Which is actually true.

InTenSity wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:This is federal program to which I was referring. I haven’t read it, so there’s the chance it contains info already mentioned by our Florida Swillers.

https://www.fema.gov/flood-insurance

I'm not sure what you're referencing,  but I'm pretty sure every insurance company that covered those area will deny coverage and say they got flooded. Which is actually true.

I fully agree with you. Lots of people are going to get soaked from this flood.

kingstonlake wrote:

InTenSity wrote:
I don't think I've ever heard of that place. A couple of thoughts, the design is interesting. Designing the roads to flood, I'd like to see how that works. The solar being run by FP&L could make the difference of continuing to have power. In FL, if you have Solar and the power goes out, you can't use your solar to power your house, you have to use batteries. I had no clue until after Irma about that. FP&L lobbied for that rule, I agree with part of it, which is that you don't want to electrocute workers, but you should be able to disconnect from the grid and use your own power.
Being inland can get to be unbearable at times, so I wonder how many residence are year round residence at that community. Summers on the west coast, probably even 5 miles from the coast can be really hot and bug filled.
Either way I like the concept.

Have you checked with Trapper on this? I’m skeptical.

You didn't stay to the end of that thread apparently, we finally determined that my experience was skewed because I was never more than about 3 miles from water.

InTenSity wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:Thought this was an interesting story about Babcock Ranch, a 100% solar-powered community a dozen miles outside of Fort Myers. Nobody lost power and the homes sustained minimal damage. The Ranch was an idea of, and built by, former Green Bay Packer Syd Kitson in 2015. Gotta believe a lot of builders will be taking notice.


https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/02/us/solar-babcock-ranch-florida-hurricane-ian-climate/index.html

I don't think I've ever heard of that place. A couple of thoughts, the design is interesting. Designing the roads to flood, I'd like to see how that works. The solar being run by FP&L could make the difference of continuing to have power. In FL, if you have Solar and the power goes out, you can't use your solar to power your house, you have to use batteries. I had no clue until after Irma about that. FP&L lobbied for that rule, I agree with part of it, which is that you don't want to electrocute workers, but you should be able to disconnect from the grid and use your own power.
Being inland can get to be unbearable at times, so I wonder how many residence are year round residence at that community. Summers on the west coast, probably even 5 miles from the coast can be really hot and bug filled.
Either way I like the concept.

Just like homeowners who own backup generators the crossover switching between grid power and backup, or other power can be automatic. Most of the farms around me have this type of switching gear. For those not electrically handy an electrician is required to install the switch gear. This gear totally disconnects from the grid and connects to the alternate power.

Trapper Gus wrote:

InTenSity wrote:
I don't think I've ever heard of that place. A couple of thoughts, the design is interesting. Designing the roads to flood, I'd like to see how that works. The solar being run by FP&L could make the difference of continuing to have power. In FL, if you have Solar and the power goes out, you can't use your solar to power your house, you have to use batteries. I had no clue until after Irma about that. FP&L lobbied for that rule, I agree with part of it, which is that you don't want to electrocute workers, but you should be able to disconnect from the grid and use your own power.
Being inland can get to be unbearable at times, so I wonder how many residence are year round residence at that community. Summers on the west coast, probably even 5 miles from the coast can be really hot and bug filled.
Either way I like the concept.

Just like homeowners who own backup generators the crossover switching between grid power and backup, or other power can be automatic.  Most of the farms around me have this type of switching gear.  For those not electrically handy an electrician is required to install the switch gear.  This gear totally disconnects from the grid and connects to the alternate power.

Ok, but that's not allowed in Florida.  Sunshine state discourages solar.  Cuz Republicans lobbying.

tGreenWay wrote:Thought this was an interesting story about Babcock Ranch, a 100% solar-powered community a dozen miles outside of Fort Myers. Nobody lost power and the homes sustained minimal damage. The Ranch was an idea of, and built by, former Green Bay Packer Syd Kitson in 2015. Gotta believe a lot of builders will be taking notice.


https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/02/us/solar-babcock-ranch-florida-hurricane-ian-climate/index.html

I was just there. Power going out wasn't the problem, it was power transmission due to knocked over power poles and submerged transformers.
Being that far inland certainly helped with the wind and water damage, but I saw plenty of houses close to the coast that survived with very little to no structural damage. Mostly homes built in the last 30 years.
Barrier islands are just not a good places to be in hurricanes.

I.B. Fine wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:Thought this was an interesting story about Babcock Ranch, a 100% solar-powered community a dozen miles outside of Fort Myers. Nobody lost power and the homes sustained minimal damage. The Ranch was an idea of, and built by, former Green Bay Packer Syd Kitson in 2015. Gotta believe a lot of builders will be taking notice.


https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/02/us/solar-babcock-ranch-florida-hurricane-ian-climate/index.html

I was just there. Power going out wasn't the problem, it was power transmission due to knocked over power poles and submerged transformers.
Being that far inland certainly helped with the wind and water damage, but I saw plenty of houses close to the coast that survived with very little to no structural damage. Mostly homes built in the last 30 years.
Barrier islands are just not a good places to be in hurricanes.

The story is about having a local source of power, then.

With more renewables coming online in the United States there may be more locations that are less affected by weather.

I.B. Fine wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:Thought this was an interesting story about Babcock Ranch, a 100% solar-powered community a dozen miles outside of Fort Myers. Nobody lost power and the homes sustained minimal damage. The Ranch was an idea of, and built by, former Green Bay Packer Syd Kitson in 2015. Gotta believe a lot of builders will be taking notice.


https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/02/us/solar-babcock-ranch-florida-hurricane-ian-climate/index.html

I was just there. Power going out wasn't the problem, it was power transmission due to knocked over power poles and submerged transformers.
Being that far inland certainly helped with the wind and water damage, but I saw plenty of houses close to the coast that survived with very little to no structural damage. Mostly homes built in the last 30 years.
Barrier islands are just not a good places to be in hurricanes.

There's a very good reason why they're called barrier islands.

I.B. Fine wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:Thought this was an interesting story about Babcock Ranch, a 100% solar-powered community a dozen miles outside of Fort Myers. Nobody lost power and the homes sustained minimal damage. The Ranch was an idea of, and built by, former Green Bay Packer Syd Kitson in 2015. Gotta believe a lot of builders will be taking notice.


https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/02/us/solar-babcock-ranch-florida-hurricane-ian-climate/index.html

I was just there. Power going out wasn't the problem, it was power transmission due to knocked over power poles and submerged transformers.
Being that far inland certainly helped with the wind and water damage, but I saw plenty of houses close to the coast that survived with very little to no structural damage. Mostly homes built in the last 30 years.
Barrier islands are just not a good places to be in hurricanes.

Yeah, inland, where there were still high winds, but not storm surge, it is pretty much mobile homes that got deatroyed. On the islands or on the water in the mainland, it was storm surge, not winds, that did most of the damage.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

I.B. Fine wrote:

I was just there. Power going out wasn't the problem, it was power transmission due to knocked over power poles and submerged transformers.
Being that far inland certainly helped with the wind and water damage, but I saw plenty of houses close to the coast that survived with very little to no structural damage. Mostly homes built in the last 30 years.
Barrier islands are just not a good places to be in hurricanes.

Yeah, inland, where there were still high winds, but not storm surge, it is pretty much mobile homes that got deatroyed.  On the islands or on the water in the mainland, it was storm surge, not winds, that did most of the damage.

Yeah, after Andrew ('92) they tightened up the codes and enforcement and it shows, but not many houses are designed to be underwater....

There is a misconception about the codes.  Miami Dade has the strictest,  well Monroe might have stricter.  Developers fought making these codes state wide. So guess what,  but all of florida has the code that S. Florida does.  On top of that,  I'll post more later,  when it's easier to not correct autocorrect on my phone.

I.B. Fine wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:Thought this was an interesting story about Babcock Ranch, a 100% solar-powered community a dozen miles outside of Fort Myers. Nobody lost power and the homes sustained minimal damage. The Ranch was an idea of, and built by, former Green Bay Packer Syd Kitson in 2015. Gotta believe a lot of builders will be taking notice.


https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/02/us/solar-babcock-ranch-florida-hurricane-ian-climate/index.html

I was just there. Power going out wasn't the problem, it was power transmission due to knocked over power poles and submerged transformers.
Being that far inland certainly helped with the wind and water damage, but I saw plenty of houses close to the coast that survived with very little to no structural damage. Mostly homes built in the last 30 years.
Barrier islands are just not a good places to be in hurricanes.

I just like the idea of buried lines and the ability to draw your own power when the local utility can’t provide it. Obviously, even if you have buried power lines, it does no good if those lines between Babcock Ranch and the utility have been brought down by wind or whatever, and I doubt the Ranch has a direct feed to the utility.
As for being so close to the water, our friends in Cape Coral really were fortunate. They lost power and water but sustained no flood damage, unlike all their neighbors. Apparently, there’s a large building near them that acted as a buffer. They were lucky and they know it. I’m happy for them but will be curious to see if they stick it out in FLA after less than a year and one large hurricane or return to MI.

tGreenWay wrote:

I.B. Fine wrote:

I was just there. Power going out wasn't the problem, it was power transmission due to knocked over power poles and submerged transformers.
Being that far inland certainly helped with the wind and water damage, but I saw plenty of houses close to the coast that survived with very little to no structural damage. Mostly homes built in the last 30 years.
Barrier islands are just not a good places to be in hurricanes.

I just like the idea of buried lines and the ability to draw your own power when the local utility can’t provide it. Obviously, even if you have buried power lines, it does no good if those lines between Babcock Ranch and the utility have been brought down by wind or whatever, and I doubt the Ranch has a direct feed to the utility.
As for being so close to the water, our friends in Cape Coral really were fortunate. They lost power and water but sustained no flood damage, unlike all their neighbors. Apparently, there’s a large building near them that acted as a buffer. They were lucky and they know it. I’m happy for them but will be curious to see if they stick it out in FLA after less than a year and one large hurricane or return to MI.

Chances are, they'll never get hit with something like this again, that makes landfall as close to them as rhis, and even less likely for it ti be nearly as strong. At least not for a really long time.

On the other hand, Ian made landfall at exactly the same spot as Hurricane Charley 18 years ago, so Mother Nature isn't deck of cards with a finite number of cards that can be dealt.

tGreenWay wrote:

I.B. Fine wrote:

I was just there. Power going out wasn't the problem, it was power transmission due to knocked over power poles and submerged transformers.
Being that far inland certainly helped with the wind and water damage, but I saw plenty of houses close to the coast that survived with very little to no structural damage. Mostly homes built in the last 30 years.
Barrier islands are just not a good places to be in hurricanes.

I just like the idea of buried lines and the ability to draw your own power when the local utility can’t provide it. Obviously, even if you have buried power lines, it does no good if those lines between Babcock Ranch and the utility have been brought down by wind or whatever, and I doubt the Ranch has a direct feed to the utility.
As for being so close to the water, our friends in Cape Coral really were fortunate. They lost power and water but sustained no flood damage, unlike all their neighbors. Apparently, there’s a large building near them that acted as a buffer. They were lucky and they know it. I’m happy for them but will be curious to see if they stick it out in FLA after less than a year and one large hurricane or return to MI.

Talked with an old co-worker that bought a house near Cape Coral 8-10 months ago. House was built in 2004 and weathered Ian well. Some minor exterior damage. No water damage. No internet but power is on. He's going to rent it to a damage restoration crew from New Jersey for at least a month.

MiamiSpartan wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:


I just like the idea of buried lines and the ability to draw your own power when the local utility can’t provide it. Obviously, even if you have buried power lines, it does no good if those lines between Babcock Ranch and the utility have been brought down by wind or whatever, and I doubt the Ranch has a direct feed to the utility.
As for being so close to the water, our friends in Cape Coral really were fortunate. They lost power and water but sustained no flood damage, unlike all their neighbors. Apparently, there’s a large building near them that acted as a buffer. They were lucky and they know it. I’m happy for them but will be curious to see if they stick it out in FLA after less than a year and one large hurricane or return to MI.

Chances are, they'll never get hit with something like this again, that makes landfall as close to them as rhis, and even less likely for it ti be nearly as strong. At least not for a really long time.

On the other hand, Ian made landfall at exactly the same spot as Hurricane Charley 18 years ago, so Mother Nature isn't deck of cards with a finite number of cards that can be dealt.

I think Irma landed on Marco in 2017. Only about 40 miles south of where Ian landed?

MiamiSpartan wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:


I just like the idea of buried lines and the ability to draw your own power when the local utility can’t provide it. Obviously, even if you have buried power lines, it does no good if those lines between Babcock Ranch and the utility have been brought down by wind or whatever, and I doubt the Ranch has a direct feed to the utility.
As for being so close to the water, our friends in Cape Coral really were fortunate. They lost power and water but sustained no flood damage, unlike all their neighbors. Apparently, there’s a large building near them that acted as a buffer. They were lucky and they know it. I’m happy for them but will be curious to see if they stick it out in FLA after less than a year and one large hurricane or return to MI.

Chances are, they'll never get hit with something like this again, that makes landfall as close to them as rhis, and even less likely for it ti be nearly as strong. At least not for a really long time.

On the other hand, Ian made landfall at exactly the same spot as Hurricane Charley 18 years ago, so Mother Nature isn't deck of cards with a finite number of cards that can be dealt.

I’d imagine it’s tougher to predict what might be a 100- or 500-year storm, considering how patterns and storm strengths are changing. All I know is if I lived in Florida, I’d buy something with the most up to date technologies available. Better yet, I’d build to my specs and hire I.B. for the job and make him my bitch.

The Pantry wrote:

tGreenWay wrote:


I just like the idea of buried lines and the ability to draw your own power when the local utility can’t provide it. Obviously, even if you have buried power lines, it does no good if those lines between Babcock Ranch and the utility have been brought down by wind or whatever, and I doubt the Ranch has a direct feed to the utility.
As for being so close to the water, our friends in Cape Coral really were fortunate. They lost power and water but sustained no flood damage, unlike all their neighbors. Apparently, there’s a large building near them that acted as a buffer. They were lucky and they know it. I’m happy for them but will be curious to see if they stick it out in FLA after less than a year and one large hurricane or return to MI.

Talked with an old co-worker that bought a house near Cape Coral 8-10 months ago. House was built in 2004 and weathered Ian well. Some minor exterior damage. No water damage. No internet but power is on. He's going to rent it to a damage restoration crew from New Jersey for at least a month.

I’ll be curious to find out how much damage the damage restoration crew inflicts on your former colleague’s place.

One of the news sites said airbnb's are getting 7 times what the usually do....

So your dude is paying off his mortgage after a couple weeks of that. (Maybe not mortgage)

tGreenWay wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Chances are, they'll never get hit with something like this again, that makes landfall as close to them as rhis, and even less likely for it ti be nearly as strong. At least not for a really long time.

On the other hand, Ian made landfall at exactly the same spot as Hurricane Charley 18 years ago, so Mother Nature isn't deck of cards with a finite number of cards that can be dealt.

I’d imagine it’s tougher to predict what might be a 100- or 500-year storm, considering how patterns and storm strengths are changing. All I know is if I lived in Florida, I’d buy something with the most up to date technologies available. Better yet, I’d build to my specs and hire I.B. for the job and make him my bitch.

You couldn't afford me....but you may have the opportunity to buy me a beer Saturday.

kingstonlake wrote:

MiamiSpartan wrote:

Chances are, they'll never get hit with something like this again, that makes landfall as close to them as rhis, and even less likely for it ti be nearly as strong. At least not for a really long time.

On the other hand, Ian made landfall at exactly the same spot as Hurricane Charley 18 years ago, so Mother Nature isn't deck of cards with a finite number of cards that can be dealt.

I think Irma landed on Marco in 2017. Only about 40 miles south of where Ian landed?

Yeah, which is actually kind of far in terms of the destructive force, especially considering that passed inland of Fort Myers and didn't produce much, if any storm surge.

tGreenWay wrote:

I.B. Fine wrote:

I was just there. Power going out wasn't the problem, it was power transmission due to knocked over power poles and submerged transformers.
Being that far inland certainly helped with the wind and water damage, but I saw plenty of houses close to the coast that survived with very little to no structural damage. Mostly homes built in the last 30 years.
Barrier islands are just not a good places to be in hurricanes.

I just like the idea of buried lines and the ability to draw your own power when the local utility can’t provide it. Obviously, even if you have buried power lines, it does no good if those lines between Babcock Ranch and the utility have been brought down by wind or whatever, and I doubt the Ranch has a direct feed to the utility.
As for being so close to the water, our friends in Cape Coral really were fortunate. They lost power and water but sustained no flood damage, unlike all their neighbors. Apparently, there’s a large building near them that acted as a buffer. They were lucky and they know it. I’m happy for them but will be curious to see if they stick it out in FLA after less than a year and one large hurricane or return to MI.

There are a bunch of eggheads who study this sort of thing who propose creating a national grid with buried lines. The really farout ones proposed superconducting lines, though the losses on HV lines are pretty low.