Re: 2024 Presidential Election

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-10, 07:47

MiamiSpartan wrote:
GRR Spartan wrote:Big delay so the Russian Quisling Agent could get new talking points after the MI GOP puked all over their shoes in the MI midterms.

Wouldn't be surprised to see CA's Newsom vs TX's Abbott

US Senate was a path to the Presidency but the way the US Senate has let things stagnate last 12 years has removed a lot of prestige from being a member of that legislative body.

Not really. Not directly anyway. Obama and JFK are the only presidents in the last 100 years that went from the Senate to the Presidency.

I believe 4 others in the last 100 years were former presidents, but had been VPs more recently than Senators. And two of those only ascended to the Presidency due to the death of their predecessor.

So the Senate has been a path to the vice Presidency, and to getting nominated, but in the latter case usually ended up in a loss.

Presidents who have been Senators

Biden
Obama
Nixon
LBJ
Kennedy
Truman
Harding
Harrison
Johnson
Buchanan
Pierce
Tyler
Harrison
Van Buren
Jackson
Adams
Monroe

Some have been in the US House, too. I sort of think being a Governor is training for the Presidency.

by AvgMSUJoe 2022-11-10, 08:14

"I'm SURE she doesn't WORK... lazy progressive millennials only want handouts, amiright. Playing on her computer isn't even a REAL job... sheesh."

This quote brought to you today by douchy grumpy clueless old guy yelling at clouds and cracks in the sidewalk and his neighbor's squirrels and whatever else he can.

by RQA 2022-11-10, 09:04

GRR Spartan wrote:Big delay so the Russian Quisling Agent could get new talking points ...

Sorry to burst your bubble Gramps but I was spot on with my election prediction.

My prediction was that Whitmer would be re-elected (every incumbent gov runnig in the country was re-elected) along with the other executives and that all the props would pass. I predicted the HOR would flip but that the Senate would be held by dems once they found out how many votes they needed.

The only thing I was wrong about is that the Senate may actually flip too.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-10, 09:09

RQA wrote:
GRR Spartan wrote:Big delay so the Russian Quisling Agent could get new talking points ...
Sorry to burst your bubble Gramps but I was spot on with my election prediction.

My prediction was that Whitmer would be re-elected (every incumbent gov runnig in the country was re-elected) along with the other executives and that all the props would pass. I predicted the HOR would flip but that the Senate would be held by dems once they found out how many votes they needed.

The only thing I was wrong about is that the Senate may actually flip too.

What you didn't predict was the Blue Wave in Michigan flipping the State Legislature.

edit - also it will be interesting to see how many more people voted Blue for the HOR. It is looking the highly gerrymandered state of FL, where the vote is almost 50/50 but the gerrymander causes the seats to be 20 / 8 may be the reason the HOR flips. What a farce, we need a National Districting Law like the ones in MI, CA 7 (I think) AZ.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2022-11-10, 09:16

Trapper Gus wrote:
RQA wrote:
Sorry to burst your bubble Gramps but I was spot on with my election prediction.

My prediction was that Whitmer would be re-elected (every incumbent gov runnig in the country was re-elected) along with the other executives and that all the props would pass. I predicted the HOR would flip but that the Senate would be held by dems once they found out how many votes they needed.

The only thing I was wrong about is that the Senate may actually flip too.

What you didn't predict was the Blue Wave in Michigan flipping the State Legislature.

edit - also it will be interesting to see how many more people voted Blue for the HOR. It is looking the highly gerrymandered state of FL, where the vote is almost 50/50 but the gerrymander causes the seats to be 20 / 8 may be the reason the HOR flips. What a farce, we need a National Districting Law like the ones in MI, CA 7 (I think) AZ.

He didn’t predict shit, don’t fall down that trap and follow him. Dudes been trying to do victory dances since June and everyone knows it no matter what he tries to say now. Any other random post he made was just hedging. You don’t need to engage him on it.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-10, 09:19

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:He didn’t predict shit, don’t fall down that trap and follow him. Dudes been trying to do victory dances since June and everyone knows it no matter what he tries to say now. Any other random post he made was just hedging. You don’t need to engage him on it

Good Point

by **Wally Fairway** 2022-11-10, 09:20

Trapper Gus wrote:
Wally Fairway wrote:
What a shitstorm that would be
Someone please tell there are better candidate, our democracy may depend on this - dead serious with this post

Better in what sense, since both have won a Presidental Election they are proven as winning candidates.

I would like a younger set, myself, but as of yet really don't see the combination of some experience and a younger age on the Democratic side that I get excited about and of course the Republican side is a shit show.

Jimmy Carter is also a proven winning candidate (by your definition) - should he be considered? (Oh yeah BHB, GWB and WJC are term limited)

One of these guys is a mumbling octogenarian and the other is a misogynistic narcissistic self-center egotistic asshole - but sure those are choices too.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-10, 09:24

Wally Fairway wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Better in what sense, since both have won a Presidental Election they are proven as winning candidates.

I would like a younger set, myself, but as of yet really don't see the combination of some experience and a younger age on the Democratic side that I get excited about and of course the Republican side is a shit show.
Jimmy Carter is also a proven winning candidate (by your definition) - should he be considered? (Oh yeah BHB, GWB and WJC are term limited)

One of these guys is a mumbling octogenarian and the other is a misogynistic narcissistic self-center egotistic asshole - but sure those are choices too.

If Jimmy Carter runs and wins the nomination, I will vote for him. He was a better President than any of the Republicans before or after him.

edit - you are aware that Biden has had a stuttering issue all his life, actually I hope you don't know that because if you do then fuck off and I mean that in the nicest way possible.

by **steveschneider** 2022-11-10, 09:26

I gave it a lot of thought for 2024 and I think I have the best ticket for the dems.....

Biden Harris

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2022-11-10, 09:27

per the 'pro-life' christians who find words confusing, I'll be able to get an abortion at my dentist appt on Monday. 2024 Presidential Election - Page 3 3493939353

2024 Presidential Election - Page 3 3493939353

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-10, 09:28

Robert J Sakimano wrote:per the 'pro-life' christians who find words confusing, I'll be able to get an abortion at my dentist appt on Monday.

Prop 3 does not go into effect until December 24th, maybe you can get on for Boxing day

by RQA 2022-11-10, 09:31

Trapper Gus wrote:

What you didn't predict was the Blue Wave in Michigan flipping the State Legislature.

I did not opine on the MI state legislature. But given that MI is a democrat state with union controlled politics that should not come as a surprise to anyone.

by RQA 2022-11-10, 09:35

Robert J Sakimano wrote: who find words confusing

It was the board leftists who flailed about trying to explain what the term "attending health care professional" meant in prop 3.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-10, 09:40

RQA wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

What you didn't predict was the Blue Wave in Michigan flipping the State Legislature.

I did not opine on the MI state legislature. But given that MI is a democrat state with union controlled politics that should not come as a surprise to anyone.

Oh sure, that is why the Republicans controlled the legislature since 1984.

2024 Presidential Election - Page 3 420617953

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-10, 09:41

RQA wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote: who find words confusing

It was the board leftists who flailed about trying to explain what the term "attending health care professional" meant in prop 3.

Pretty sure it was your overlords, the leaders of the churches.

by RQA 2022-11-10, 09:42

Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

He didn’t predict shit

Give me a break, Boss ...

Given that the board leftists like to misquote me and/or put words in my mouth to argue against ("strawman"), I thought it best to be on record as to my thoughts about the upcoming election.

I specifically said that Whitmer and the other executive officers in MI would win (didn't exactly go out on the limb there) and that all the props would pass (not out on the limb with that one either) and the the HOR would flip (again, I am a realist) but that the Senate would stay dem.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2022-11-10, 09:43

RQA wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

He didn’t predict shit

Give me a break, Boss ...

Given that the board leftists like to misquote me and/or put words in my mouth to argue against ("strawman"), I thought it best to be on record as to my thoughts about the upcoming election.

I specifically said that Whitmer and the other executive officers in MI would win (didn't exactly go out on the limb there) and that all the props would pass (not out on the limb with that one either) and the the HOR would flip (again, I am a realist) but that the Senate would stay dem.

2024 Presidential Election - Page 3 200.gif?cid=ddb306a5o06mua4cutj51u9sawwc02rq80rp4ev8o8hvo39f&rid=200

by **MiamiSpartan** 2022-11-10, 09:47

Trapper Gus wrote:
MiamiSpartan wrote:

Not really. Not directly anyway. Obama and JFK are the only presidents in the last 100 years that went from the Senate to the Presidency.

I believe 4 others in the last 100 years were former presidents, but had been VPs more recently than Senators. And two of those only ascended to the Presidency due to the death of their predecessor.

So the Senate has been a path to the vice Presidency, and to getting nominated, but in the latter case usually ended up in a loss.

Presidents who have been Senators

Biden
Obama
Nixon
LBJ
Kennedy
Truman
Harding
Harrison
Johnson
Buchanan
Pierce
Tyler
Harrison
Van Buren
Jackson
Adams
Monroe

Some have been in the US House, too. I sort of think being a Governor is training for the Presidency.

Right, many have been Senators, but, at least in the last 100 years, only 2 of those Senators that became President were not VPs.

I agree, Governor is more of a path. Maybe it's the idea of having some experience in the executive branch (VP or governor). Even Coolidge (I think?) had one or two cabinet position before president.

by PennSpartan 2022-11-10, 09:52

RQA wrote:
Travis of the Cosmos wrote:

He didn’t predict shit

Give me a break, Boss ...

Given that the board leftists like to misquote me and/or put words in my mouth to argue against ("strawman"), I thought it best to be on record as to my thoughts about the upcoming election.

I specifically said that Whitmer and the other executive officers in MI would win (didn't exactly go out on the limb there) and that all the props would pass (not out on the limb with that one either) and the the HOR would flip (again, I am a realist) but that the Senate would stay dem.

Going back to the Presidential 2024 race, it seems to me Republicans have a real problem on their hands. Trump does not want to give up his grip on the party, but his influence is not helping. Seems Biden and Dems are in a better position than the GOP now.

by RQA 2022-11-10, 09:54

Trapper Gus wrote:

Pretty sure it was your overlords, the leaders of the churches.

You're back to this bullshit again?

by PennSpartan 2022-11-10, 10:10

RQA wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Pretty sure it was your overlords, the leaders of the churches.

You're back to this bullshit again?

Trapper likes to complain about trolling, except when he’s doing it.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-10, 10:16

MiamiSpartan wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Presidents who have been Senators

Biden
Obama
Nixon
LBJ
Kennedy
Truman
Harding
Harrison
Johnson
Buchanan
Pierce
Tyler
Harrison
Van Buren
Jackson
Adams
Monroe

Some have been in the US House, too. I sort of think being a Governor is training for the Presidency.
Right, many have been Senators, but, at least in the last 100 years, only 2 of those Senators that became President were not VPs.

I agree, Governor is more of a path. Maybe it's the idea of having some experience in the executive branch (VP or governor). Even Coolidge (I think?) had one or two cabinet position before president.

Hoover also was a cabinet member.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-10, 10:18

RQA wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Pretty sure it was your overlords, the leaders of the churches.

You're back to this bullshit again?

Oh, come one, you have claimed to be a member of exactly the cohort which votes almost at a 90% rate for Republicans.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-10, 10:19

PennSpartan wrote:
RQA wrote:

You're back to this bullshit again?
Trapper likes to complain about trolling, except when he’s doing it.

I do troll the trolls. 2024 Presidential Election - Page 3 420617953

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2022-11-10, 10:45

Trapper Gus wrote:
Robert J Sakimano wrote:per the 'pro-life' christians who find words confusing, I'll be able to get an abortion at my dentist appt on Monday.

Prop 3 does not go into effect until December 24th

those pesky women get to start killing children just in time to celebrate the birth of baby jesus!! 2024 Presidential Election - Page 3 502811600

by RQA 2022-11-10, 10:57

Trapper Gus wrote:
RQA wrote:

I did not opine on the MI state legislature. But given that MI is a democrat state with union controlled politics that should not come as a surprise to anyone.

Oh sure, that is why the Republicans controlled the legislature since 1984.

Districting. Once the job fell into the hands of democrats the outcome is hardly surprising.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-10, 11:05

Robert J Sakimano wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Prop 3 does not go into effect until December 24th
those pesky women get to start killing children just in time to celebrate the birth of baby jesus!!

Well....

I read years ago that if there really was a real person, Jesus, that, based on the stories about Joseph & Mary returning to Bethlehem for taxation, he was probably born sometime in September or October after the harvests were done, but before the winter rains made all the roads into mud.

Of course, since so many of the "heathens" celebrated the Winter Solstice, the Catholic Church changed the date of his birth to be on the same day, to try to rope in the unbelievers.

Just one more thing the Church changed, just like in 1869 they changed when a fetus was a person from 24 weeks to 0 seconds. Anyone who trusts the Christians to be honest about anything they "believe" in is a fool.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-10, 11:11

RQA wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Oh sure, that is why the Republicans controlled the legislature since 1984.

Districting. Once the job fell into the hands of democrats the outcome is hardly surprising.

The districting commission has 4 Democratic Members, 4 Republican Members and 5 Independent Members.

There are rules about some members from each subgroup must vote yes for a districting plan to be approved.

The districts approved, when reviewed by voting experts, were thought to give the Republicans a slight edge, which given that more people vote for Democratics pissed off a bunch of Democratics.

It looks like abortion turned this election, in Michigan, into a Blue Wave that overcame the slight advantage the districts gave the Republicans.

by **DWags** 2022-11-10, 11:14

RQA wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Oh sure, that is why the Republicans controlled the legislature since 1984.

Districting. Once the job fell into the hands of democrats the outcome is hardly surprising.

This, of course, is another lie of yours. I cant believe you just don’t want honest debate. You cant be that kind of ass.

by AvgMSUJoe 2022-11-10, 11:14

RQA wrote:
Trapper Gus wrote:

Oh sure, that is why the Republicans controlled the legislature since 1984.

Districting. Once the job fell into the hands of democrats the outcome is hardly surprising.

I think you mean, fell out of the hands of republicans to an independent commission... get it right.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/how-michigan-republicans-are-trying-sway-state-s-independent-redistricting-n1283296
https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/expert-testifies-gerrymandering-michigan-worse-almost-anywhere

by RQA 2022-11-10, 11:30

DWags wrote:
RQA wrote:

Districting. Once the job fell into the hands of democrats the outcome is hardly surprising.

This, of course, is another lie of yours. I cant believe you just don’t want honest debate. You cant be that kind of ass.

More than happy to have an honest debate about it. Clearly districting in recent history favored Republicans.

Now comes an "independent'" commission to do the job. Equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats plus 5 "independent" members. Let's look at these independent members:

1. lists in his bio that he is a strong supporter of prop 2. Is that the position of a Republican or Democrat?

2. A northern Michigan attorney. Do attorneys more often support D or R?

3. A Wayne County attorney.

4. A retired banker. Likely R

5. Auto worker from Saginaw.

4/5 are likely democratic leaning.

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-10, 11:47

RQA wrote:
DWags wrote:

This, of course, is another lie of yours. I cant believe you just don’t want honest debate. You cant be that kind of ass.

More than happy to have an honest debate about it. Clearly districting in recent history favored Republicans.

Now comes an "independent'" commission to do the job. Equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats plus 5 "independent" members. Let's look at these independent members:

1. lists in his bio that he is a strong supporter of prop 2. Is that the position of a Republican or Democrat?

2. A northern Michigan attorney. Do attorneys more often support D or R?

3. A Wayne County attorney.

4. A retired banker. Likely R

5. Auto worker from Saginaw.

4/5 are likely democratic leaning.

Maybe start with the resulting districts they put in place. These were reviewed by a number of independent experts, both as part of the process, and by the press just to report on what was happening.

All the experts said that the Districting slightly favored a Republican majority in the State legislature, and in the US House.

Your attempt at a conspiracy theory doesn't hold up the results of the commission.

Furthermore, it is hugely flawed.

1. lists in his bio that he is a strong supporter of prop 2. Is that the position of a Republican or Democrat?

Could be either, there are honest Republicans, those from the Millikan branch of the party.

2. A northern Michigan attorney. Do attorneys more often support D or R?

Could be either, there are just as many lawyers who are Republicans as Democratics. I would suggest since he is a northerner, he is more likely republican, but that is too much of a generalization.

3. A Wayne County attorney.

Could be either, there are just as many lawyers who are Republicans as Democratics.

4. A retired banker. Likely R

Could be either, there are bankers who are Republicans and bankers who are Democratics.

5. Auto worker from Saginaw.

Could be either, there are auto workers who are Republicans and auto workers who are Democratics. In fact, Trump has shown this person is more likely a Republican, but again that is an assumption that cannot be proven.

4/5 are likely democratic leaning - total BS RQA - only in your twisted mind, and it doesn't deal with the fact that the districts as set up slightly favored Republicans even though more people in Michigan typically vote for Demcratics.

by **DWags** 2022-11-10, 14:40

RQA wrote:
DWags wrote:

This, of course, is another lie of yours. I cant believe you just don’t want honest debate. You cant be that kind of ass.

More than happy to have an honest debate about it. Clearly districting in recent history favored Republicans.

Now comes an "independent'" commission to do the job. Equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats plus 5 "independent" members. Let's look at these independent members:

1. lists in his bio that he is a strong supporter of prop 2. Is that the position of a Republican or Democrat?

2. A northern Michigan attorney. Do attorneys more often support D or R?

3. A Wayne County attorney.

4. A retired banker. Likely R

5. Auto worker from Saginaw.

4/5 are likely democratic leaning.

So in other words you are just guessing based on jobs. Blue collar, white collar, whatever. Let me ask you this, I live in Macomb County, where very many people live in one or two bedroom single floor houses, they work at one of the big three as factory workers. Their average income as well below six figures. They are, for a lack of a better word, blue-collar workers. In your opinion do you think they supported trump more, or Biden more?

Also, I’m sure we all have a bunch of friends who are attorneys, take a guess, in my circle of friends who happen to be attorneys, the percentage of home are republican, and who are Democrat.

My point is you are really making huge assumptions. And frankly, districting was way more biased when republicans were in charge.

by **Robert J Sakimano** 2022-11-10, 14:45

DWags wrote:
RQA wrote:

More than happy to have an honest debate about it. Clearly districting in recent history favored Republicans.

Now comes an "independent'" commission to do the job. Equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats plus 5 "independent" members. Let's look at these independent members:

1. lists in his bio that he is a strong supporter of prop 2. Is that the position of a Republican or Democrat?

2. A northern Michigan attorney. Do attorneys more often support D or R?

3. A Wayne County attorney.

4. A retired banker. Likely R

5. Auto worker from Saginaw.

4/5 are likely democratic leaning.

So in other words you are just guessing based on jobs. Blue collar, white collar, whatever. Let me ask you this, I live in Macomb County, where very many people live in one or two bedroom single floor houses, they work at one of the big three as factory workers. Their average income as well below six figures. They are, for a lack of a better word, blue-collar workers. In your opinion do you think they supported trump more, or Biden more?

Also, I’m sure we all have a bunch of friends who are attorneys, take a guess, in my circle of friends who happen to be attorneys, the percentage of home are republican, and who are Democrat.

My point is you are really making huge assumptions. And frankly, districting was way more biased when republicans were in charge.

neither here nor there, but my wife is an attorney and she makes me and my politics look like Strom Thurmond.

by AvgMSUJoe 2022-11-10, 16:08

I am not party affiliated. In fact I wouldn't call myself a Dem for anything... THAT SAID, I doubt I will EVER vote for an r.

To be clear, not voting for an R is not saying I'm a D... it's saying I'm not a asshole.

by **Cameron** 2022-11-10, 16:30

Perhaps my least favorite thing about Republicans is how they drive me to defend and support Democrats.

It used to be that both parties were kinda shitty, but in rather similar ways. To my mind, the Democrats have stayed about the same (in terms of overall quality, obviously specific policies/issues have evolved over time), whereas the Republicans seem to be engaged in some sort of perverse experiment where they see how crazy and stupid they can get and still win elections. Makes for a pretty easy choice most of the time.

by sεяεηιτλ 2022-11-10, 17:27

RQA wrote:
DWags wrote:

This, of course, is another lie of yours. I cant believe you just don’t want honest debate. You cant be that kind of ass.

More than happy to have an honest debate about it. Clearly districting in recent history favored Republicans.

Now comes an "independent'" commission to do the job. Equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats plus 5 "independent" members. Let's look at these independent members:

1. lists in his bio that he is a strong supporter of prop 2. Is that the position of a Republican or Democrat?

2. A northern Michigan attorney. Do attorneys more often support D or R?

3. A Wayne County attorney.

4. A retired banker. Likely R

5. Auto worker from Saginaw.

4/5 are likely democratic leaning.

Rofl, you can explain anything away by just stating you don't trust the integrity of the system. Ergo, you will never ever be happy when something positive occurs for democrats, because such and such. You are basing the integrity on flimsy associations. Guess what, I know lots of repubs support 2, every one of the many guys I know in the auto industry are Rs..except only 1. And that 1 is not confirmed. Every attorney I know is R, and the bankers I know lean R. There you have it, I'm now arguing at your level. Doesn't this all sound ridiculous?

by **Trapper Gus** 2022-11-10, 18:54

DWags wrote:
RQA wrote:

More than happy to have an honest debate about it. Clearly districting in recent history favored Republicans.

Now comes an "independent'" commission to do the job. Equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats plus 5 "independent" members. Let's look at these independent members:

1. lists in his bio that he is a strong supporter of prop 2. Is that the position of a Republican or Democrat?

2. A northern Michigan attorney. Do attorneys more often support D or R?

3. A Wayne County attorney.

4. A retired banker. Likely R

5. Auto worker from Saginaw.

4/5 are likely democratic leaning.

So in other words you are just guessing based on jobs. Blue collar, white collar, whatever. Let me ask you this, I live in Macomb County, where very many people live in one or two bedroom single floor houses, they work at one of the big three as factory workers. Their average income as well below six figures. They are, for a lack of a better word, blue-collar workers. In your opinion do you think they supported trump more, or Biden more?

Also, I’m sure we all have a bunch of friends who are attorneys, take a guess, in my circle of friends who happen to be attorneys, the percentage of home are republican, and who are Democrat.

My point is you are really making huge assumptions. And frankly, districting was way more biased when republicans were in charge.

Engineers tend to be Republican, except when they are not.

by **DWags** 2022-11-10, 19:11

Trapper Gus wrote:
DWags wrote:

So in other words you are just guessing based on jobs. Blue collar, white collar, whatever. Let me ask you this, I live in Macomb County, where very many people live in one or two bedroom single floor houses, they work at one of the big three as factory workers. Their average income as well below six figures. They are, for a lack of a better word, blue-collar workers. In your opinion do you think they supported trump more, or Biden more?

Also, I’m sure we all have a bunch of friends who are attorneys, take a guess, in my circle of friends who happen to be attorneys, the percentage of home are republican, and who are Democrat.

My point is you are really making huge assumptions. And frankly, districting was way more biased when republicans were in charge.

Engineers tend to be Republican, except when they are not.

Its hard to cornhole anyone into a specific party. I’d say closest thing I can think of is maybe racist misogynistic people tend to be MAGA’s. Other than that it’s hard.

by **Travis of the Cosmos** 2022-11-10, 19:15

When are you going to answer for your crimes dwags? How many bribes did it take to keep you quiet?

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